In this episode of NDO Podcast we visit with Sandra Johnson, Department conservation biologist, about bald eagles, their recovery from the endangered species list and how they’re faring today.
Cayla: Welcome to episode 94 of the NDO podcast. On this episode, for the first time, we convinced Sandra Johnson to come on department conservation biologist to talk about eagles. All things eagles.
Sandy: Yes. Thank you for having me.
Cayla: Sandy likes her birds.
Sandy: Yeah, I do like birds, all birds.
Cayla: So yeah, if you just want to give everyone like your role now and I guess how you got there. Yeah.
Sandy: So I started with the department in May 2002. Like I graduated college on a Saturday, and I think I started here on Monday.
Cayla: Oh, whoa.
Sandy: Yeah.
Casey: You had you started.
Cayla: You had your act together because I had a big lapse of, like, I'm just not doing anything right now.
Sandy: Well, I actually had a summer job lined up doing nest dragging with Ducks Unlimited, which is just a blast. But then this position came open and I applied for it and got it. So had to turn down the nest dragging and came here and wasn't quite sure what I was getting myself into. I knew it was kind of a new program dealing with nongame species and this thing called the State Wildlife Action Plan, but it's been a blast.
Casey: Yeah. You guys were in on the first iteration of it.
Cayla: I was gonna say. Did you and Patrick starred on the same day or no?
Sandy: I started before him.
Cayla: Like, yeah,
Casey: Andrea.
Sandy: Andrea was here, her and her husband both worked for the department, and they left, September left that fall?
Casey: Yeah, probably because I, I started working in Bismarck the same time you guys started. Pretty much.
Sandy: Okay.
Casey: Yeah, I was up in Riverdale before, but.
Sandy: Yep. So then we hired Patrick, and, um, kind of. We're trying to figure out, yeah, what the state wildlife action plan is. And we had some federal funds that we could work with to do some research on nongame species. So those first few years. Yeah, we're kind of a whirlwind just trying to get this plan in place and identify which species are declining, which species are of concern. Um, so yeah, that was our first, first plan, 2005. Then we did it again in 2015 and just finished it up here. 2025 the latest update.
Cayla: We're eagles in the first plan?
Sandy: They were.
Cayla: Speaking of eagles yeah.
Sandy: Because that 2005 I mean they were still in danger. They didn't have that many nests in the state. So yeah, bald eagles were in the first plan. We actually just removed them now in the 2025 plan.
Cayla: Cool. So they're a success story from the.
Sandy: I kinda of claim, maybe I helped bring it back. Yeah.
Cayla: I just remember my dad always pointing eagles out to us and like it was the coolest thing. And I just kind of felt like, what do you mean? We see these all the time. We're always pointing out eagles. Yeah, I don't know, but there's probably.
Sandy: There’s a lot in Minnesota.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: My oldest son loved raptors, and I remember the one time we had a bald eagle in like in the road ditch along our pasture when they drove out for school one morning and he was pretty little. They had a outback there driving and like Eagle was standing on the ground and it was tall enough. It could look right in the window. And that was the point where he decided that eagles are always mad.
Cayla: They do kind of look mad. Yeah, grouchy.
Casey: All the time.
Sandy: I think the females look a little bit grumpier than the males, even if you get them right next to each other. I mean, you can tell the size difference, but yeah, the females especially.
Cayla: That's because they have to put up with those chicks all day. They're just...
Casey: Glad you said it, not me.
Sandy: Well, you know, the male brings a lot of the sticks to the nest, and he's always putting them in the wrong spot. So she's got to move them again.
Cayla: No different. No different than us. Um, which we obviously view as our nation's bird. But, um, yeah. Sandy did some research and found it wasn't the nation's bird until 2024.
Sandy: Right. Yeah. It's been our nation's symbol, our nation's emblem since 1782. And I mean, obviously, it's been important to Native Americans just spiritually, culturally. So it is it's been our symbol of this country. But yeah, it wasn't until December ‘24, 2024, that legislation was passed to make it our nation's bird. So just like the state bird of North Dakota is the western meadowlark, bald eagle is our nation's bird. Bison is the nation's mammal. I think the rose is the flower. Yeah.
Cayla: Didn't, uh, I was gonna say Washington wanted the turkey. What do you mean? Thank goodness? Oh, my gosh, so much cooler. Yeah.
Sandy: Could you imagine the emblem of the turkey emblem with a turkey in like, with the olive branch and the arrows?
Cayla: It would be awesome, come on.
Casey: I just don't feel like the turkey on a, you know, warcraft or aircraft carrier would be cool.
Sandy: No, I agree.
Cayla: That's true.
Casey: Put the Eagle on there. The scream is more scary too.
Cayla: Should have been some little warbler.
Sandy: Yeah, yeah. Something cute.
Cayla: Yeah. Uh, but, uh, we were just saying that, uh, so they were endangered, obviously. Not too long ago. Not too long in the distant past. So.
Casey: So this is probably one of the very recognizable species that has been on the endangered species list and come off.
Sandy: Right.
Casey: Successfully.
Sandy: Yep. Yep. Yeah. It's quite the quite the history to bald eagles and where they were listed and when um, they were never listed in Alaska. Alaska has always had a good, good population. Um, so obviously with just some of the unregulated take that happened with raptors back in like the 1800s, early 1900s, that caused some population declines, but then also DDT, which DDT didn't impact the eagles directly. It impacted the fish and the Eagles eat the fish. So that's how it accumulated in eagles.
Casey: And the biggest thing was, is that it changed their ability to make eggs almost wasn't it. Like their eggshells were so soft that they couldn't bring off chicks.
Sandy: Yeah. Same with peregrine falcons and some other birds too, which is thinned the eggshells. So eagles would sit on the egg and it would crack and. Yep. So yeah. So the eagle was listed as endangered in 1967. So this is kind of before the Endangered Species Act too. There were some additional protections that were put on eagles. Um, but then in 2000, 2007 is when they were removed from the list, so it just took that long once DDT was banned and their long-lived species, it just took that long before they really started increasing.
Cayla: It's crazy that we figured that out. That feels hard to pinpoint. Like why? I don't know. Yeah.
Casey: National symbol gets a lot of attention.
Cayla: Yeah.
Sandy: It does.And it still does even though there's a lot of them there.
Cayla: Yeah. I guess another nice thing about well, one is they're so big so you can see them from far away, but they're compared to a lot of other birds. Very easy to identify.
Sandy: Yeah, yeah, that's for sure.
Casey: Especially the adults. Yeah.
Cayla: Yeah.
Sandy: Especially the adults. It's some of the juveniles and subadults get people confuse them with golden eagles sometimes but. And we can talk about that too. Just some of the differences.
Casey: Some of this population stuff you have on listed on here, like in the 1700s we had 100,000 pairs.
Sandy: Kind of a guesstimate. But yeah, that's kind of what they thought. Yep.
Casey: So and then we were all the way down to 417 pairs as far as we could tell when they got protection.
Sandy: And that's what we have in North Dakota now probably. Is that number just our state alone.
Casey: Mhm.
Sandy: And then yeah, the last year that so the Fish and Wildlife Service does have primary statutory authority over bald eagles. But most state wildlife agencies going back to when I started here at Game and Fish, I mean it was the state wildlife agencies that kind of took the lead on just keeping track of the number of known nests in their state. Um, so with some of these numbers, now that the Fish and Wildlife Service has come up with they have done some different area surveys, not in North Dakota, but Minnesota, where there's where there are a lot of bald eagles and they're able to extrapolate those numbers. So, um, 2019, that's actually quite a few years ago now. So they estimated about 71,000 pairs and a total population of 316,000. So they’re doing well.
Casey: Mhmm, yeah. Well they're still afforded like you said, some protection from the US Fish and Wildlife Service and under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, is where the main protection comes from.
Sandy: Yep. Correct.
Cayla: Actually, remembered too. I shouldn't admit this, but during grad school and like, it'd be like about this time of year. Minnesota has that eagle camp, well it did then it knocked down. But then we all had it. We had it up on like one person's screen and like all day while we were working, we were like, oh, the mom's back or whatever. Like we just had the Eagles up all day for like two months. It was like we should really be focusing on our, I don't know, just gave us some.
Sandy: I checked some every once in a while.
Cayla: Yeah. One person's monitor was just the dedicated eagle cam and you're all I mean, we were doing some work, but occasionally someone would be like, what's that? What'd they bring? What's in there? Yeah. Uh.
Sandy: Yeah, we've had some requests over the years. If we could do an eagle camera in North Dakota and just, I mean, the logistics and the.
Cayla: Yeah, that's got to be a lot of. Yeah.
Sandy: And it's like there's a lot out there now to go check out. So.
Casey: Mhm. One thing they do a lot is when they migrate through there following the waterfowl. Um a lot of times. Time. So fish is one of their food sources, but waterfowl seems to be another one of their big ones. Yep. Snow geese especially. Yep.
Sandy: Yeah. So in North Dakota now we have our eagle population is nesting in late February, March, April. But yeah when the other eagles come through in like late March early April those are all migrants heading north. A lot of subadults, juveniles just floating around looking for food, following the geese. Um, if we have a good winterkill, then that's a good time to get out and see.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: YeahI remember just north of my parents place one time the lake winter killed out, and there was a lot of carp in that lake, and they were, like, stuck in the ice. Right. And there must have been 60 eagles across this little patch of ice. Just digging on carp.
Sandy: That's pretty cool. Yeah. When you do hit it just right and you're able to see that.
Cayla: Yeah. How much do they I mean, I guess I've seen like how much do they catch, like alive. Because it isn't like a misconception that they mostly just try to eat. They're scavengers, mostly. Just try to eat dead stuff.
Sandy: This is why Benjamin Franklin didn't really like them. Because they steal food from other birds and scavenge.
Casey: Resourceful.
Cayla: Resourceful.
Sandy: Yeah, yeahI mean, they'll definitely take a lot of live prey. Probably more so when they do have young in the nest. But, I mean, they're definitely opportunistic. And especially during the winter and eating on dead deer and, um, and that's where some of the issues still are happening with like, lead poisoning because they are eating animals that are shot with lead. And that's, that's definitely an issue still.
Casey: Yeah. And the one birds or raptors themselves, like the problem with them is they have a gizzard that grinds up the lead for the most part.
Sandy: Yep.
Casey: Coyotes that lead that might be in a deer and it just passes through.
Sandy: Right.
Casey: Raptor grinds it up in it's gizzard and it becomes a problem.
Sandy: And then raptors eating the waterfowl that have avian influenza. And that's why we've lost some bald eagles. When that came about in 2022, we did kind of see a dip in the number of occupied nests. So it did impact some other species too, like rough legged hawks and peregrine falcons, um, birds that scavenge on or eat waterfowl. Um, we've seen some recovery, especially in eagles now, but some of the other raptors might be taking a little while to come back from that.
Casey: So what in North Dakota I guess for, for eagle say habitat, you know, um, everything needs food, water, space and shelter. But like what? When eagles come to North Dakota, the biggest thing is if they're nesting here and what are they looking for?
Sandy: Right. So yeah, I think North Dakota's interesting just reading some of the historical records. You know, we're a prairie state. We really only had cottonwood trees and habitat like along the Missouri River, Red River, Devils Lake area. I mean, that's where bald eagles used to be. And now, you know, settlers came and we planted trees everywhere. There's big cottonwood trees. So, um, if you kind of read some of the old, old books about bald eagles, they want these pristine, you know, forested habitats with lakes. And now it's kind of like, well, there's a couple big trees on the pasture and, you know, there's a lake within a mile or two. We have water everywhere and waterfowl. So. So yeah, as far as habitat, I’ve really seen just some strange places, you'd think for bald eagle. But I mean, they've proven to be very adaptable to all kinds of different habitats. And there's some states where I mean, they're almost like nesting on the ground.
Cayla: I was gonna ask that. Okay. Yeah.
Sandy: I haven't documented that here yet, but I think Texas and maybe parts of Alaska where there aren't trees, tundra, they're kind of making ground nests. Yeah.
Casey: Yeah. Because usually you see these eagle nests in they’re 40ft in the air.
Sandy: Mhm.
Cayla: Big tree. Yeah. They're like bigger than this table? It feels weird. Yeah.
Casey: Like six feet across.
Sandy: Yeah. Some can get just huge. Well watch those eagle cameras. And it's like the tiny little bald eagle in this huge nest.
Casey: And they, they kind of keep adding to them. They come back and use them every year if they're still there. Yep. Keep adding to them.
Cayla: Does the same pair come back or just like?
Sandy: They do?
Cayla: Okay.
Sandy: If one of the mates dies, they usually find another mate. Um, but, yeah, we've we have some nests now in the state that we've documented. Maybe not every year, but I mean, nests that have been used for 20 years.
Casey: Wow. Mhm.
Casey: They get huge like they just keep stacking them up. And I remember that the one north of my parents kept stacking up and stacking up. And that sucker was like six feet high and six feet wide. I think that's why the tree fell over.
Sandy: Yeah. Yeah.
Casey: I don't know.
Sandy: Yeah. Because some of these trees they pick, your kind of looking at it going, why didn't you pick the one just a little bit further away? That looked a little bit sturdier, but for some reason they wanted that tree. But that definitely happens. I’m guessing that happened probably more so than I've documented so far from last year in July when we had those big windstorms. It sure seems like we lost a lot of cottonwood trees and just other trees out driving around. So I think eagles probably built some new nests, maybe this this winter because, yeah, if they picked a poor tree.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: Are people pretty good about reporting them or do you like, do we go out and or do you have some that you just like to check on or I guess. Yeah.
Sandy: Yeah. Oh yeah. Definitely no, a lot of our records do come from the public. So we do have on our website there's a bald Eagle Nest Report form. Super easy to use. We just, you know, want to know where the nest is at, how many adults you saw. Usually, you can't see like the young. Sometimes people can if they report it later. Um, and, and if there's a nest there. So we're not looking for just general bald eagle observations, but where the nest is at. So you could use that from your phone. You could upload a picture. Some people do that. Um, so usually in the spring. Now Lara puts that on the main page, our home page. So when you go there you'll see that. So yeah, a lot of reports come from that. So with our database the information is protected. So it's not something that we advertise where all these nests are at. Because some folks that call me I mean they're really excited. They've got an eagle nest on their land. And they want to know that we're not going to tell everybody where this eagle nest is at. So but we do work with different, um, environmental review projects. So if there is something like a transmission line going in, we'll work with the consultants to share data that we have just so that they know where there might be nests, or they tell me where there's new nests just to try to minimize impacts to any, any eagle nest during development in the state.
Casey: Do we do we go out. So like I assume a lot of the ones that we get now since we have over 400 pair. Um, a lot of the reports we get are probably ones that we already know about, but like if we get a new one, are you going out and verifying that for its use mainly?
Sandy: Right. Yep. Yep. I try to, um, just because sometimes it's kind of questionable, even like, well, is this a bald eagle nest? Because sometimes bald eagles will just perch by another raptor nest. So I want to go before I add it to the database and verify that. Yes, this is an eagle is is using this nest. Um, so most of the nests we probably have verified um, sometimes Jeff Faught our pilot, I'll send him up for a day. He loves going out and I'll just have him check some known nests, especially if they are a little bit harder to see. Most of the nests in North Dakota, you can see from quite a ways away. So, um, but yeah, I definitely like getting out a few days every spring and just checking on some, some reported nests, but also maybe if they haven't been checked on a few years. And so it's always fun just going out and seeing all the different sizes and shapes and nests, or if there's something goofy in there like a Canada Goose or.
Casey: Yeah, cause they will use the nests if they get first crack at it, I'm sure.
Sandy: Yep.
Cayla: Have we seen that? Just reminded me that, like, you can see the geese nesting out west, like, just on the tops of buttes. Do eagles ever do that or no?
Sandy: You know, a few years ago, we did have a consultant. He had seen an eagle sitting like that. And we never did confirm if it was on a nest or if it was just kind of it almost looked like it was an old goose nest that this eagle was sitting on. But yeah, I could see it happening.
Cayla: They're so weird. I don't know.
Casey: Yeah. The so the most it is the eagle nest that I think it's gone now or not being used along the interstate. Is that the most reported nest you have?
Sandy: Oh, yeah, the Buffalo exit nest.
Cayla: Yeah. Yeah.
Casey: Well, I think Scott Peterson reported it every year.
Sandy: He maybe did, yeah that is definitely the most reported, but I drove by there a few weeks ago and did not see it.
Casey: Yeah, I think it blew down or something.
Sandy: Yeah. The trees. It used to be a pretty good tree grove. They're dead trees. But, um, so I'm guessing the pair has probably found another spot in the area. But there’s a couple other nests pretty close to the interstate, but not that close. But I never get reports on those. So, maybe it's a good thing people are keeping their eyes on the road.
Casey: Right, yeah.
Cayla: Yeah. So you said, um, the ones that are going to come nest here, you said like, late February, March, April.
Sandy: Yeah. So I don't know if we really know some of the bald eagles are probably staying here year-round. Um, some of our eagles might migrate. We've never done, like, a GPS tracking study. It'd be really interesting to find out what our eagles, North Dakota Eagles are doing, but so a pair will we'll start adding to the nest. If they haven't already built nest in like January and late February, they're laying eggs. Um, they might lay up to three eggs and they do start incubating right away. So that's where if you see different size eaglets in the nest, once they do hatch okay. Yeah. They're starting incubation right away versus other birds like ducks. Wait till they have the lay all the eggs to incubate. Um, so those eaglets are hatching and, you know, probably late March, early April. Um, and then they're in the nest till probably July.
Cayla: Oh wow.
Sandy: And that's when, I mean, they get big quick. Yeah, they're as big as the adult. And they might start kind of moving around on branches. And maybe by the end of July, August, they're flying around and parents might stay with them for another month or two, and then they're pretty much on their own to figure out how to survive. So.
Cayla: And they don't have the white heads till year
Sandy: Five
Cayla: Okay. Yeah. I was gonna say it's not like the next year.
Sandy: Yeah, that first year they're really dark brown. And that's when a lot of people might confuse them with golden eagles, because you just see this big dark brown bird. Um, and then years like two through five, well, two through three, they just look all mottled, have white feathers all randomly, all over their body. And year four, they start getting the white head. But there might be, like, dark specks in it. And but yeah, by five, six, it's that really pretty white bald head.
Casey: Thanks.
Cayla: Yeah. That really pretty white bald head.
Casey: That really pretty white pretty. That's what I got.
Sandy: Which bald means white. Yep, not just bald.
Cayla: Um, you did mention golden eagles, though. So what's the size difference? And what do we have for golden eagles here? We have a few.
Sandy: We don't have as good a handle on golden eagles. There have been some nest surveys like back in the 70s and 80s and then again in the early 2000, when I started here, we had someone a graduate project on eagles there. They're a little bit tougher to find and survey, but guesstimate is probably 40 to 50 golden eagle nests. Um, but again that's, that's kind of older data. But golden eagles seem to be stable nationwide stable to declining a little bit, whereas bald eagles are just increasing. And we've even documented a couple times where we had a historic golden eagle nest in a tree. Um, and then we've documented a bald eagle using it. So I don't know if something happened in that golden eagle pair. And a bald eagle sees this nest. It's, you know, a lot of work is already done, and they're going to start using it.
Casey: Because golden eagles are typically a little bigger, aren't they?
Sandy: Yeah, I think their...
Casey: Wingspan is bigger.
Sandy: Yeah. Yeah. We were kind of having this discussion once I think. And it depends like if you're looking at the weight or wingspan wise I think wingspan is bigger.
Casey: So to the naked eye they would look bigger.
Sandy: Yeah. Um.
Cayla: Without that like reference, though, it's hard to know.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: What's bigger?
Sandy: So bald eagles do have a larger head. So that's one thing to look for. If you see this big dark bird flying and bald eagles are kind of more just flat when they're flying. Um, golden eagles have their wings tilted up a little bit. So little cues to look for.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: Good luck figuring that out.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: What else we got? Yeah.
Casey: Yeah. So we had just go down the number of nests in the state over time. I mean, it it looks I mean, they jump pretty quick.
Sandy: Yeah. Yep. So going back to let's see like historically we like I said, we kind of knew that there were some nests. We don't know how many that were along the Missouri River. And then there were many years where we didn't have any documented bald eagle nests. The first one was in 1988. Um, and then in the.
Cayla: Do you know which one that was? That’s be cool this is the one, we’re all invested.
Sandy: I think. Oh, gosh. I'm questioning if it's if it was kind of over by Apple Creek here, or if I think it was actually along the Missouri River.
Cayla: Okay.
Sandy: Because I believe a landowner had reported it to the Fish and Wildlife Service. So yeah, it was pretty exciting, I'm sure to, you know, after eagles being gone in such low numbers for so long. I mean, to see a bald eagle, right. And even when I started at Game and Fish, well, really up until just a few years ago. Yeah, I'd get calls from people and they're so excited because they had never seen a bald eagle in North Dakota before. And now. Yeah, like in the spring you can go out and see 60 in 1 place or, you know, upwards of a hundred. And it's just amazing to see that many. So yeah, going back to the year 2000, then we were up to about ten. And then 2005 is probably more kind of when I started, um, keeping track of the nests for the state.
Casey: So that's why there's more of them.
Sandy: Yeah, yeah. That's right.
Casey: Eagle eyes.
Cayla: Yeah.
Sandy: Um, and then by 2010, we were up to 74, 2015 up to 176. So we're doubling the numbers every five years.
Casey: Well, are they typically bringing off, like, two chicks a year?
Sandy: Yeah. Most of the nests that it does seem like two there, there's quite a few nests where they have pulled off three.
Casey: Yeah. So I mean these numbers would make sense then the way they're doubling.
Sandy: Yeah. And it does seem like um.
Casey: It's a pretty good recruitment.
Sandy: Right. And it's almost like the nests kind of start clustering. You know if you have an eagle nest in one county and probably five, six years later maybe there's a couple other kind of close, at least just from looking at the maps, it seems like that's how they've kind of.
Casey: So you think those juveniles are coming back?
Sandy: I think they do. Because we as part of that Golden Eagle study. And I think some of the work done with bald eagles, we know that those young birds that have been tracked, they do often go back to the natal areas. So I'm guessing, I mean, eagles are smart, raptors, birds are smart. I mean, even meadowlarks go back to the same fence post, you know, after they migrated to Arkansas or wherever. So they kind of know where they came from. And but yeah, they've got a few years to just kind of feed and wait till they become an adult. So maybe they're scoping out, you know, some new areas in that place to, to establish a nest. So yeah, by 2020 then we're up to 327 nests. And now in 2025 I estimated about 400. And I'm sure that's probably even kind of low. I'm sure there's a lot more out there that.
Casey: Just yeah, that would be where that avian influenza kind of came in though too.
Sandy: Right. Yeah. It was in 2022. We had had kind of a dip so.
Casey: Mhm. I mean at some point the population is gonna start regulating itself, right. Whether it's resources or whatever it is.
Sandy: Yeah. We're going to run out of big cottonwoods in North Dakota. So yeah, it's been fun. Just I guess monitoring bald eagles, keeping track of this database and just talking to some of the folks over the years, like, every time I get a call from a, a veteran that's reporting a nest, I mean, you can just kind of tell in their voice there's a little bit more emotional tie to seeing a bald eagle. And yeah, they like telling me stories about the nest they've seen or the eagles and um, so yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
Cayla: How long do they live? And also do they. So around five they turn, they get the white heads. But is that also about when they start reproducing or do they reproduce before that.
Sandy: Yeah. It's according to what we know. Yeah. It, it can be five years. Yeah. But they, they will live. The oldest documented eagle was 38 years old. So yeah, they can definitely live.
Casey: In North Dakota or in the nation?
Sandy: That was in the nation. Um, I can't remember which state that one. So but yeah, they definitely can live a long time, probably longer in captivity, but it's a little bit tougher living in the wild. Yeah, avian influenza, power lines.
Casey: Although, they’re probably in better shape.
Sandy: Yeah, yeah.
Casey: I know the more time I spend in the wild, I'm in better shape.
Sandy: Yeah. But, yeah, it's still kind of, you know, like we talked about the, the nest along the interstate and how many people have reported that. But also, I always kind of wonder how many people don't see that nest or I'm always looking around whenever my husband and I are out hunting in the fall, I'm like, stop. You know, back up. There's another nest and I don't. I'm just always looking, I guess, for eagles. And I just kind of.
Casey: Yeah.
Sandy: You know, people just look around a little bit more you'd be amazed.
Casey: Well, it's funny, like, you know, we of course, as biologists, we're always looking for stuff like that. But a lot of people aren't.
Sandy: They could be driving just the other day going home. There's a cottonwood kind of on the edge of Bismarck here. And I look up and there's a bald eagle, and I'm like, I wonder how many people are driving underneath this bald eagle and don't even see it.
Casey: They're like you said, maybe they're keeping their eyes on the road.
Sandy: Maybe keep your eyes on the road.
Casey: Not on their cell phone, but on the road.
Cayla: It is hard to like I've been with, I don't know, just people that aren't really used to like seeing things. So like to try to point something out to someone that's like, I don't know, like how to even where to even begin. At least, like, Scott definitely sees more than me, but then, like, he can direct me to the object that he's. Yeah, but like someone who's not used to, like looking at birds or animals, it's like, I don't know.
Casey: It's right there in the tree.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: You’re just lucky. In North Dakota, we don't have very many, so it's already narrowed it down.
Cayla: Yeah, eagles are easy they're giant.
Sandy: Um, so one nest that has been active for a long time is at Fordville Dam, so it's in the eastern part of the state. Um, and that's a recreation area, but there's some tree rows that aren't, you know, close to where people camp and stuff. And I was over there. This was probably back in 2005, maybe one of those 28 nests. But, you know, just checking it out because I hadn't seen that one before. And, um, to a gentleman, older gentleman that must take care of the place, you know, they drove by and saw me sitting there and were like, hey, you know, what are you looking at? Or what are you doing out here? And I said, I'm checking out your eagle nest. And it had been there for a few years, I think. And they look and they say, oh, that ain't no robin's nest. It's just like huh. Yeah. It's been there for a while.
Casey: If there’s a robin in it, it’s not happy.
Sandy: Nope there’s an eagle there.
Cayla: That ain't, oh, gosh.
Sandy: Uh, so yeah, they could be. And they are picking places like. I mean, there's some farmsteads in North Dakota just on the backside of the farmstead there, you know, kind of in their backyard. Eagles are nesting now. So they're going to nest where they want to. If they find a good spot.
Cayla: I'm gonna make it a goal to find one that hasn't been reported now.
Sandy: Yeah.
Cayla: Just gonna roam around.
Casey: Roam around.
Sandy: Well, for a long time I didn't have any in Wells County. And that was Scott Peterson's goal was to find the first in Wells County.
Casey: Did he?
Sandy: No, he did not. I think, um, Mike Rvenberg with Fish and Wildlife Service, he's been out.
Cayla: So we have one in every county now?
Sandy: Almost. I don't have any in Golden Valley and Billings, but I'm guessing.
Cayla: That's turkey country. I'll figure it out.
Casey: This will be the year she doesn't shoot a turkey because she's looking for eagles.
Cayla: Scott's going to be like it's right there.
Sandy: Usually in the database I kind of each eagle nest just gets like a number. But I do give it a name sometimes just so that I know it's this. So I'll name it after you if you find me a nest.
Cayla: That would be cool.
Casey: The Bendel nest.
Cayla: Yep.
Sandy: Yeah.
Cayla: Nice. I'm in.
Casey: Turkey hunting just took a turn.
Cayla: I know it's a turn for the worse, too. Wrong. Look in the wrong direction. Trees, though roosting trees.
Sandy: Yeah, yeah.
Casey: Maybe you find an eagle that stole your turkey.
Cayla: Yeah. I guess now that you say that, though, I haven't seen any eagles out there. Really, if I think about it. But I have to try harder. Gotta look along the river.
Sandy: Is the nest kind of by your place, Casey? Active? Kind of by.
Casey: By my place or by my parent’s place?
Sandy: By your parent’s place?
Casey: I don't think so. I think that that one fell down. I haven't seen anything rebuilt there.
Sandy: Haven't built it.
Casey: Mhm.
Sandy: I might have to get up there and check it out.
Casey: Yeah. Check it out I, I don't go by there much anymore. How much competition with other raptors is there. Eagles and other raptors. They fairly territorial?
Sandy: Yeah, I mean yeah, they're pretty territorial. But you do see like small birds kind of attacking them.
Cayla: Like bugging them. Yeah.
Casey: Blackbirds that's.
Sandy: Yep, blackbirds.
Cayla: Crows? I feel like I've seen crows bugging them.
Sandy: Yeah, I actually did see a picture the other day too. Someone had got a peregrine falcon, was going after a bald eagle and had the feathers. Cameras are just amazing now these days too. But like some of the tail feathers were in the peregrine’s talons.
Cayla: Oh my gosh.
Sandy: So yeah, I mean, they're definitely territorial, but I think the bald eagle would win in most cases.
Casey: My guess is it would never catch the peregrine.
Sandy: Right. Yep. He must have just been close to a territory or something.
Casey: Yeah.
Sandy: But we have had some nests over the years. Not as much anymore. But when we had a lot of dead, flooded trees, there were some cormorant colonies. And there's a bald eagle nest in the middle of that. I always kind of wondered, how does that work out maybe.
Casey: Maybe cormorants don't taste good.
Sandy: Maybe.
Casey: They just leave him alone.
Sandy: Uh, but, yeah, some of those dead trees, they definitely don't last.
Cayla: Maybe they just wait, cause I don't know. Cormorants are eating the fish. Maybe there's some dead fish.
Casey: Yeah, I may be stealing.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: Cormorants just kind of swallow them down.
Cayla: Okay.
Casey: Yeah, they'd never get. If they're stealing them. It's.
Sandy: Unless they couldn't choke it back. Spit it back up and it takes it. Yeah, I could see an eagle doing that.
Cayla: It's a what is that called? Mutual. Mutualistic. I don't know, I don't know what the bald eagle gives back. Maybe some protection.
Casey: Yeah. I had a bald eagle try to steal a snow goose one time that I shot, and it landed out in the water. And all of a sudden, this bald eagle, I was waiting for it to like the wind was coming towards me. So I was waiting for it to blow back to shore. And the bald eagle came down, picked it up for a little bit, and then dropped it again, but actually brought it closer to shore. So then the dog and I go running over there and get it.
Cayla: Probably not supposed to do this, but at the like, um, outpost cabin we’d go to when I was a kid in Canada, every time we clean fish, we would just take the boat over to the rocks, like, right across and put the fish guts there. And by the time you're, like, headed back on the boat, the eagle comes. Yeah. At least we took them away from the cabin but probably shouldn't have been doing that either. But.
Casey: Well, I think that they had some rules about you're supposed to put it in the water or something. I can't remember back when I was a kid.
Cayla: Well, yeah, I know in like the Boundary Waters, you're supposed to, like, bury your fish guts, but it's like he's gonna eat them right up in two seconds, right? He's gonna have them gone by the time we get back. But I know that you wouldn't want to, like, attract them to the human yeah. Interface. But yeah.
Casey: reliance.
Sandy: Yeah, it would be interesting to know what some of these bald eagles in North Dakota are eating. Obviously, fish and waterfowl, but I'm guessing a lot of grebes and muskrats. I've heard people say they've seen muskrats. Seems like some of those bald eagle nest cameras you see turtle shells.
Cayla: I was gonna say there was a turtle shell in the one in grad school, yeah. It seems like that's a lot of work for very little meat, but.
Sandy: Right.
Casey: It's probably pretty easy to catch, though.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: Probably if you just crossing the road. I mean, it's not.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: Can't be too hard.
Cayla: Are there that many like turtles though, moving around in, like, April or March in like June, you know. But that's I don't feel like we were watching this thing in June. Yeah, I don't know.
Sandy: It's usually painted turtles. I don't know if I've ever seen snapping turtles. That would be.
Casey: It'd be. I don't know if that would happen. Yeah, it depends on the size.
Sandy: Yeah. If it was a small one, but, um.
Casey: So snapping.
Cayla: Yeah, wehre are they getting those turtles I like? Turtles aren't out in April.
Casey: Yeah. I suppose if it was warmer than average, you know, but.
Sandy: If they’re, perched. What do turtles do? Perch or roost I don't I don't do herptiles.
Cayla: Herptiles. I don't do herptiles?
Sandy: Reptiles and amphibians. I don't know when they're sitting on a log sunbathing.
Casey: Yeah, they'd be harder to catch there because they disappear into the water.
Cayla: Yeah.
Sandy: I don't know, that's true.
Casey: But crossing the road, they'd be pretty easy.
Cayla: Yeah. I just don't feel like sea turtles crossing the road till like June. Right. Yeah, I don't know. Mm. We’ll have to get. Who does? Herptiles. Aaron?
Sandy: Uh, Greg Schonert now.
Cayla: Okay.
Sandy: Yeah. Greg would be our herptile expert.
Cayla: Just tell. Ask him when say, when do turtles cross the road?
Sandy: And why?
Cayla: Okay,All right, we'll get into the department droppings. So the Spring Light Goose Conservation Order is open now through May 10th. We went over this on some other department droppings, but, um. Yeah, you need, uh, at this point, you would need the new because it's April 1st, uh, 2026. If you're a resident combination or small game license. If you're a nonresident, then it's just the spring light goose license. And then youth just need a general game and habitat, including nonresident youth. We just like what is that called. Waive it. So you just also need a general game and habitat. Plus everybody needs the electronic waterfowl restoration stamp.
Casey: Just buy all the licenses.
Cayla: Buy all the licenses. For sure buy your waterfowl restoration stamp, then you'll be good for the fall.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: Yeah. Look out for eagles trying to steal your snow geese. Yep.
Casey: And speaking of licenses, our new licenses started April 1st, so they're on sale now. And if you're planning on putting your boat in the water, make sure you got the new boat registration.
Cayla: Also, a new fishing proclamation year. So a couple new regs to look over. Like we said, mostly, um, lessening things, but a few new regs to review for the next two years.
Casey: And one of Cayla's favorite days of the year turkey opener April 11th. Is it your favorite?
Cayla: I think it’s,you know everyone always asks if it had a dog component. It would hands down be. But there's no dogs. But I think too it's just so hard. You've been cooped up all winter. It's just so exciting to get back outside. And like camp.
Casey: I know a guy that uses his dog in Montana.
Cayla: Oh, yeah?
Casey: To hunt turkeys.
Cayla: Is that how. What?
Casey: I mean, he just sits there just like goose hunting and sits there when he shoots a turkey. The dog goes and gets it.
Cayla: Mhm. That ain't. I don't think that's gonna fly with.
Sandy: See we actually were wondering that last year because my husband could have shot a turkey right across the river, but we're like, how are we going to get it because.
Casey: I plead the fifth.
Cayla: He's not going to say.
Cayla: It's one of those gray areas where you're not going to rule.
Sandy: A whole another podcast. What can you use dogs for and what can't you?
Cayla: Anyways.
Casey: Be mindful of fire conditions out there as spring is coming. Hopefully we green up fast, but that last year's grass will be dry and brittle till we get some green up. But um, you can check out fire conditions at ND Response.gov to figure out if the area you're turkey hunting in or whatever else you're doing has any fire restrictions. And now that we've dropped the droppings, you can get off the pot and get outdoors.