In this episode of NDO Podcast we visit with Patrick Isakson, Department conservation section supervisor, about the newly approved 2025 State Wildlife Action Plan and changes since the last iteration including more public-facing resources and involvement from citizens.
Cayla: Welcome to episode 93 of the NDO podcast. On this episode, we're going to talk about SWAP, SWAP, SWAP, the State Wildlife Action Plan, with department conservation section supervisor Patrick Isakson. We were going to have a biologist on, too, but went home sick. So glad we're not sharing germs.
Casey: Glad he went home.
Cayla: Yes, exactly. Patrick's been on once before. Also talked a little bit about SWAP on that episode, but now the 2025 plan has been approved, so we'll kind of follow-up on some stuff that's happened since that. But, yeah, Patrick, if you just want to give a reminder of your background and then what you do now.
Patrick: Sure. I've been with the department for quite a while. This is my 23rd year with the department. I've been the conservation section supervisor for a little over a year now, February of last year I started out in this role, but prior to that, I worked under the conservation section as a conservation biologist starting in 2001. I'm tied pretty closely to the State Wildlife Action Plan. I and another biologist were hired with the first money the state got to write the original wildlife action plan.
Cayla: So that was in our time. Well, the timeline episodes airing after this, but 2005 was the first iteration.
Patrick: 2005 we wrote the first one. The state started to get the money that comes with the requirement, so I back up a little bit. So the state gets an allocation of money through the state Wildlife Grants program. Um, we started to get that money in 2002, 2001- 2002, and one of the requirements of each state getting that money is to write a State Wildlife Action Plan. And that's basically a guiding document for the state's nongame species and identifying those species and their habitats and, um, some of the threats that are associated with them and, and the conservation actions that we can do to try to conserve those species. So, yeah, we started in 2002 and, uh, I've been working with this program ever since.
Casey: So our first plan was the ‘05 plan. Um, the two have they. So I know, like, there's a public comment period and thing and stuff as you write these plans, um, and then edits and then like, we actually have other states, look at them, look at our plan, like kind of. Right. Yeah. So states to was that the same in 2005 and 2015. Did they do that?
Patrick: No. There's uh, um, there was a little different process in 2005 and 2015. Um, then we used this year, but not all of the states had the same process as we did. Um, um, it kind of depends on what part of the country you're in.
Casey: Okay. So kind of regional differences.
Patrick: Yeah. There was. Yeah. So this year we got a state, Nebraska's, to look at and review, and then, um, I believe Montana got ours. Okay. And that was, uh, the review process and that with, uh, an employee from the Fish and Wildlife Service. It's the State Wildlife Grants Program is a Fish and Wildlife Service funded program. So, we had somebody from the region, Fish and Wildlife Service region, and somebody from Montana look at ours and gave it the thumbs up.
Cayla: We got the final stamp of.
Patrick: The final stamp of approval first week of February. So but in previous years they've put teams together of a couple of different states and a couple of different regional people. And then they looked at all of the plans in the region. And some states didn't have any involvement in reviewing. And so they've gone through quite a different, quite a few different ways to do it.
Casey: So when the state wildlife grants program first came about like what was the purpose of it to get started? Like, what were they...
Patrick: Yeah. The overall purpose was, is there was an increase in the number of species that were making their way to the Fish and Wildlife Service Threatened and endangered species list.
Casey: Or at least the petitions to list them.
Patrick: Yep, everything was going up. And, um, for those that don't know, once a species finds its way to that list, the management gets much more expensive and much more onerous. Um, when you involve the states and all the federal agencies and that kind of thing. So this was a program was brought together as kind of a stopgap. Let's identify the species in all these states that are on their way to that list and see if we can, um, do preventative conservation to try to keep them off the list. So that was the that was the reason for its, uh, inception all those years ago. And it continues to be its use.
Casey: Okay. Yeah. Cuz it's always been interesting to me how like a lot of times when you're when you write a plan or you're told to write a plan, they sit on a shelf where this, this has seemed to become like a living document that not only we use at the game and fish, and I don't know if it's this way across other states, I guess, but in North Dakota it seems like I mean, our NRCS is using it for things, for targeting dollars. When they say they have wildlife dollars to target, they use that, um, you know, you name it, partners using it to get grants and all kinds of stuff.
Patrick: So yeah, that's you know, that's something that we're really proud of. Um, in North Dakota, we, uh, the idea all those years ago was this was supposed to be a guiding document for conservation of the state species, not the North Dakota Game and Fish Department's species or the state agency species. So we've always had really good partner involvement in writing, in writing them and then implementing them, you know, going through those conservation actions. And in a lot of cases, those actions that we put forward are, um, things that our partners have given us. You know, they're out on the landscape just like we are. Right? They own land. They manage different properties on the state. They work with our private landowners, and they know what they can do out there to conserve species. So we all worked together over the years.
Casey: And yeah, and inadvertently it's gotten I don't know if inadvertently is the right word, but like, it seems like other people in the state that we don't necessarily have contact with like maybe say, a, a college student that's looking for a grad project can pick this up and go like, hey, they need more information here. So it's almost like help direct the knowledge that we're gaining as well. These species, because species can be petitioned because nobody knows anything about it.
Patrick: Yeah, a big part of the implementation that we've done over the years is, you know, twofold. So we have identified habitats that we're interested in conserving. So there's a, you know, a specific kind of goals you have with that, whether it's protecting or creating habitat or protecting habitat. But, you know, there's still a lot of questions when it comes to species. The research that needs to be done. And we've had a lot of interest from not only state universities but universities around the country. And so, we've employed a number of graduate students over the years to try to answer some of those questions on species that we just didn't have a lot of information about. And, and moving forward, that kind of thing. So, yeah, we've helped along the wildlife programs at a number of universities in the state. And in a number of cases, those students have come back and, and worked with us in the future, whether it's working as a department employee or working with our partners and understanding what the state wants to do with the wildlife action plan.
Cayla: Um, yeah. I guess, again, I think we touched on it a little bit, but the plan wasn't finalized. But just kind of some summary big picture changes since the last iteration. Um.
Patrick: Yeah. This year we, um.
Cayla: So. Species by species. Yeah.
Casey: Do you have it memorized?
Patrick: I don't, but I did, I did before we came. I did write down the numbers. Right. So, um, we one of the major changes this year was diving into the world of invertebrates. And that was, um, we talked about that a few months back, but really just taking a look at those species that we don't have a lot of information about. Um, a lot of the pollinators, butterflies and bees are finding their way to being petitioned on the threatened endangered species list. And so, we knew that was where the focus of conservation probably was going to move for non-game for the time being. So we really made some effort to try to include those into our plan. And fortunately for us, we have a couple of biologists in the conservation section that are that have a lot of experience with them. So too so that was helpful. You know, we so we went into the aquatic world and looked at aquatic invertebrates and, and then some of the terrestrial invertebrates as well. So that was.
Casey: And we just had those people kind of come on. Yep. Like starting at this plan and partway through.
Patrick: Yeah. We uh yeah, we've had um, well, like, as you've probably talked about with other people on here, you're hired to do one job and then, uh, when, when they, when they find out, uh, other skills that you have, those also get added to your job. Right. So, we had two biologists that were hired to do, uh, to review projects, um, federal projects around the state. Um, but then find out that they have a lot of experience with aquatic invertebrates and terrestrial invertebrates. So they were added to our to our ever-growing team of, uh, yeah, partners. So, yeah. No, it's been it's been, uh, an interesting dive in, but, um, yeah. So we went through the process and added, uh, some new species and another distinction we made is we split some of those species out. So we have species of greatest conservation need. Those are the species we feel like we have a decent grasp on, know what their threats are and what actions we can take to try to conserve them. But then there's another category of species. Species of greatest information need. There's maybe an idea regionally or, you know, they're threatened in other parts of the country. And we have them here, but we don't know kind of what the population status is, just those that we need to gather more information on. And so, we kind of gave them a little bit different, different designation information need designation. And then they'll help prioritize, you know, as we move through spending our money to implement the plan, you know, we can do survey efforts to try to figure out what we don't know about those species.
Casey: Yeah, there's a lot of the citizen science stuff that's helping out with a lot of this stuff too.
Patrick: Right. So yeah, that's going to be one of our. You know we can jump into that too. You know, as we implement into the next ten years. So, the plan, you know, as you talked about is, is kind of a ten year run every ten years we have to revise it. So we kind of set up our implementation plan as a kind of a ten-year cycle. Um, and one of the things we really want to do this time around is get, um, North Dakota citizens involved with how we're, you know, just not only bring them on as, um, get them involved with doing some work out there. You know, there's a number of states around us that use their citizens to whether it's look at pollinators, bees and butterflies or count bats or Christmas bird counts and things like that.
Casey: I was gonna say, the birding world has been doing it for quite a while, and it's like there's people that just do it for fun, so why not collect the information, right?
Patrick: Yeah and a lot of, you know, so we've been doing a lot of research into what other states have been doing. And in a lot of cases, you know, it's a couple of, uh, training sessions, you know, they have an expert come in and give some ID lessons and that kind of thing, and then send them out into the world and then give them a way to, um, record their data and provide it to us or to another partner. And then we can track those species because we can't get to everything out there. Right? There's only a few of us here. And even with our partners giving us data, there's just so much out there to do and things to learn that the more people we can get involved, the better off and the more we can get done in our plan.
Cayla: I say this jokingly. I was going to call it like eBee, but it might actually exist like eBird. But is there? eBee might already exist for people that see like bees, uh, to put on there?
Patrick: They call it, uh, the Bumblebee Atlas. And uh, the Butterfly Atlas, there are two that we're looking at right now. And so yeah, it's a simple it's a simple training program to identify those species. Or in some cases, if you take a picture of the species and somebody else will identify it, you just submit your pictures and an expert will identify it. And then we get that information and we know what's out there. So yeah.
Casey: I imagine I mean, not that I'm a huge fan of AI stuff all the time, but recognizing certain pictures and things is where some of that can come into play after a while, it's it knows enough options that it can identify it for us.
Patrick: Yeah. I know there's a number of research programs or projects that, you know, we've funded and then some of the other ones within our department where they used camera traps or cameras, and they use AI to identify species and does save a lot of time. Otherwise, you have a graduate. Otherwise, you have an undergrad or graduate student going through, like you said, millions of pictures, then at.
Casey: At least it can weed out.
Cayla: It builds character.
Casey: It can weed out like, you know, ten out of 11 of those pictures and now you just have to go through the other ones.
Patrick: Right.
Cayla: I was gonna say, I know you guys too, as or your staff biologists, we're gonna start maybe some for those of them that did kind of have some background or expertise in something, maybe some monitoring of their own too, um.
Patrick: Yeah, that's, uh, that's also another big change. You know, we have decided this year, and moving into the future in this ten years, is we're going to start to survey some of our state, state lands, our wildlife management areas, and use the expertise we do have in-house to do that. You know, we have we have somebody that does a lot of bird work, and she'd like to go out and survey birds around the state. And, um, we brought somebody on that has some mammal and reptile amphibian interests and, you know, go out and do that. And so, we're in the process right now of kind of developing those surveys and, you know, send them out into the world and get some field work. And then, you know, include some of our seasonal staff that work around the state and that kind of thing, and just try to get the department as involved as possible.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: Yeah. And I even thought about, like, just the benefit it provides to seasonal staff to get in on some nongame sampling or just different. Yeah.
Patrick: Yeah. We, uh, we've met with the, uh, the management staff a couple different times and, you know, trying to figure out ways to partner, you know, and, you know, it's obviously the lands that they manage that we want to go out and do survey work on. And one of the asks they had of us is if, if we could help mentor along some of their seasonal staff too instead of, you know, doing some of the pounding fence posts and stretching fence and cutting grass and some of the things that they normally do in a seasonal year, maybe they can go out and do some.
Casey: Get a little more experience.
Patrick: Kind of broaden their horizons a bit.
Casey: Yeah. That's something that I think the fisheries crews and the wildlife crews have been kind of looking at ways that we can get those seasonals exposed to as many things as possible, um, just so that they can understand what they may or may not want to do.
Patrick: Yeah and I guess that's just another plug that I want to put in there. You know, as we kind of operate as this nongame group, there's five of us in our conservation section. Right. But we've, uh, throughout the 20 plus years that I've been here, we've partnered with all the different divisions in the department. You know, we've done work with fishery staff. We do work with wildlife staff. And understanding that the habitats that we're interested in managing and interested in preserving are the same habitats that those divisions are interested in as well. So protecting habitat and keeping grass and trees and water on the right side is important for all of them.
Casey: So the 2015 plan. Do you have any Success stories that you'd like to highlight out of that?
Patrick: Yeah, yeah for sure. We've had, uh, we've had a couple uh, we've had quite a few good projects come out of there. But two to talk about is, um, and I think if people wanted to go and look, I think we did a video on it, but we've done some grassland bird work out in the very southwest part of the state, and part of that was putting some, um, radio tracking collars on long billed curlews and, uh, being able to go and look and see where they nest. You know, that was kind of the reason we put it together, you know, trying to identify what parts of the state and what habitats they use when they're here in the spring to nest. But then also the data that, uh, on the other end when they, they left and go see where they're, where they're spending their winters and you know, what threats they encounter going on through there. And so just trying to find getting information on the whole life cycle of the bird. It's been really cool to see some of the information that's come out of there and where they end up and different from, you know, what you thought might happen and how far they go. And so that's been one great one. And another one is, you know, working with, uh, working with our private land staff to, um, put habitat on the ground, right, partnering with them and finding ways to protect native grass in the state. And that's been a real big push over the last couple years of the 2015 plan. And then going to be our biggest implementation goal for the 2025 plan is to, you know, keep grass on the ground, you know, working with we've had some studies working with, um, uh, grazers out there to try to identify grazing techniques that work both for landowners and for the birds out there that use the ground, and the species that use the ground and, and trying to develop programs that can protect that grass. And in some cases, if we find the right opportunity to be able to recreate native habitat and that kind of thing. So those are some of the things that we started to do towards the end of 2015 and really want to work on going into 2025.
Casey: So the, uh, we didn't change it to the point. So, like, we've always kind of been more on the landscape side of things. Um, as far as some of the original plans, states were very species specific, right?
Patrick: I would say, right. So, you know, the beginning of the program nationally, you know, it was you needed to develop your species list and then work down from there. What habitats are do they live in, and then what threats and what conservation actions. And we decided really early on that there were a lot of species, but we had a handful of really important habitats in North Dakota. So we knew that to do the best that we could for the greatest number of species was to really protect habitat. So our focus from the beginning has always been to try to protect as much habitat as we could. So, um, a majority of our implementation, um, work goes towards protecting habitat. And then we find ways to do the research on those species that, you know, maybe there's a different part of their life cycle that we don't understand. That might be the threat. You know, what are what are we missing? Why are, you know, we're protecting their habitat, but they're still maybe declining. So we got to figure out why that is, you know, and then try to fill in those gaps with, with species research. But yeah, we've always been focused on, uh, protecting habitat and native grass being the biggest one and, and that'll, that'll continue to be our focus. It gives us the biggest bang for our buck, you know.
Cayla: In terms of research projects, do you guys have like some already on the horizon that will fit well in this plan? Or do you feel like universities kind of come to you guys. Um.
Patrick: Well, the, uh, we've gone through a couple different processes over the years. Um, there was a time when we had a call for proposals, and universities had come to us and us with their ideas, and we tried to fit that in what we could. Um, but over the last decade or so, we've kind of gone to a more focused approach where we identify what questions we have or conservation things we want to do, and I'll go find somebody to do it. So, um, we have a couple on the horizon right now. We are working on, um, putting some, some might be familiar with, um, Motus towers, you know, it's a, it's a system that you can put a small tag on, um, bird or bat or any really any animal that moves and there's a stationary tower and any time the, the critter that you're looking at moves past that tower. You know, it'll give a location and, you know, trying to look at, um, migratory movements or, you know, regional movements and that kind of thing of birds. So we're going to go into doing some of that here in the near future. This hopefully the summer will get that off the ground. Um, looking at doing some more, um, butterfly surveys. Um, those are just a couple that have come off the ground right now. Um, and there's always, always more to look at. And so.
Casey: Pat, do you think that the last plan has helped us keep stuff off the list?
Patrick: I think that it has, um, in a lot of cases, given us the information that when the Fish and Wildlife Service comes to us, that we have information to give them, you know, so, um, I don't know how deep into the weeds you want to go with this, but when a species gets petitioned for listing, the first thing that happens is the Fish and Wildlife Service asks the partners in the state, what information do you have on that species? Right. So without the money that comes from this program, we wouldn't have been looking for or getting gathering information on those species. So in that case, it has.
Casey: Cause there's a I mean, when the Fish and Wildlife Service gets those things, they have to make a determination on information available. And if they don't have any information to disprove what's being asked. More than likely it gets listed. Right. So that's where we come in as partners or state agencies that like okay, when they when they came after, say for example, sage grouse, sage grouse were petitioned. There was a couple of things that happened there. States really ramped up and started doing sage grouse work that addressed the reason why they were petitioned. Right. And that Fish and Wildlife Service said it's not like if that's why you're asking to petition the sage grouse. It's not a problem at this time. And so, then it wasn't listed at that time.
Patrick: Right. Yeah, I guess one one specific example. I'm trying to think of what year it was. I guess it doesn't really matter. There were early on in my career, there were a couple of small carnivores that were petitioned to be listed spotted skunk and gray fox, um, um species that we had a little bit of information on, but not a lot. So we put together a research project and did three years of study. And in that process, we were able to provide to the Fish and Wildlife Service that this is what we think their range is in North Dakota. Mhm. um, and then ultimately with our information and the states around us information, they decided not to be listed, you know, so, so I mean that's a singular success story. But and then spurring off of that, that was the first information that we got on river otters, which it turned into a season here in North Dakota. And then also part of that study was, um, documenting really the first, uh, martins in, uh, the Turtle Mountains, which then also was turned into a season.
Casey: Just turned into a season. So, yeah.
Patrick: So yeah.
Casey: Um hum. Yeah. Those are good ones.
Cayla: Um, I know I think this is kind of Sandra's pet project, but, uh, the SWAP atlas, if I understand correctly, and I'm not mixing it up, is like.
Casey: SWAP.
Cayla: SWAP, SWAP, SWAP atlas, atlas, atlas is...
Patrick: That's gonna make its way around our. Yeah, our little shop in there, and it's gonna be fun.
Casey: It's gonna be fun and annoying at the same time.
Patrick: Yeah.
Cayla: That's for, like, industry to look at and almost just preventatively.
Patrick: Yeah. Two, twofold. Um, so we're lucky in that, um, other duties as assigned category. Yeah. Um, Sandy Johnson.
Casey: That's all my duties now.
Patrick: Sandy Johnson in our office, um, has always kind of been, uh, the person who works on our bird issues in the state. But she has a lot of interest in GIS and project development. And so, she, as part of this, has been, in the process of developing a mapping tool, much like our hunting atlas that you can find on our website. Um, and we'll have, uh, twofold. One, it'll be like you said, um, you can draw your project area on there and it'll identify the species that are found in there and the habitats and, and some of the issues that are involved with both for our industry partners when they're coming to site their projects, you know, whether it's a road project or a new wind project or whatever it is, it'll be the first stop shop so they can gather the information they need. And then from there, then they consult with us and we give them a little more information. Um, and then second, it'll be able to be used by our conservation partners too when they're trying to decide where they want to do conservation. You know, if if they're I think, like you mentioned before, if they're applying for a grant and they want to include as many species of greatest conservation need as they can, they can use this tool and identify spots on the in the state that would have the greatest number of species or the greatest number of habitats that they'd be interested in, in working in. And, you know, that might strengthen their project proposals or, you know, help them to partner with us if they're looking to, um, work with the state wildlife grants program and that kind of thing. So, yeah, just another way that, you know, we're hoping that the plan is more accessible to, um, our partners and to the citizens in North Dakota. You know, it's lived as a really big document on our...
Casey: Yeah. Um, we're going digital now.
Patrick: Yeah, we're it'll be a little more digital, right? You know, we had a it started out as a 600-page document, and it took a lot of time to sift, to sift through, to find the information that you wanted to. And then we cut it down to less, but it's still, you know, it was a searchable document, but it was still hard. Now we're really working to make it as accessible as possible. And, you know, working with the staff that works with our website and that kind of thing and just trying to make it. So if you come looking for information that's in our wildlife action plan, it's easily accessible.
Casey: So how fine. Like that SWAP atlas. How fine of a scale will that be at? Like I in my head I went right to like, okay, somebody who owns property and wants to maybe holistically manage it or manage it more for wildlife. Like, would it be fine enough detail to do quarters and like go, hey, this is my quarter. I'm going to incorporate grazing. I'm going to incorporate what other what other things might be something I should look at or incorporate in that system.
Patrick: Yeah. So, you know, the species and their habitats, they might be identified at a, um, uh, county scale, right? Um, but there should be, you know, that we have some layers, some grassland layers and some, some of that kind of stuff that's at a much finer scale, too. So there'd be options for both, right? You know, you know, you get into the idea of private landowners, right. So there's that's twofold. Right. Somebody may want to know what they can do on their land. Right. But you know, we also want to protect the information because we work with private landowners a lot, collecting species information, with the state being as privately owned as it is, and, you know, protecting that relationship by not providing information on, on private land when people don't want to give that information up to you. So there'll be it’ll be a balance, but I think there'll be enough, uh, in it that you can get that kind of information if you're looking for it.
Casey: Mhm. Good.
Cayla: OnX SWAP.
Patrick: OnX SWAP.
Cayla: We've got the next great idea for them.
Patrick: You know, one thing that I always like to talk about with the, you know, maybe not necessarily just this version of the plan, but our non-game budget when I started, um, was roughly $17,000 a year. We got from the watch wildlife tax checkoff. Right. It's still something we use for projects that we do out of the conservation section right now. But, you know, we went from that $17,000 to roughly a half a million dollars a year to spend, which is quite a bit more. But, you know, we can go through that pretty quick. So, you.
Casey: One good research project will eat that up.
Patrick: Yeah, especially multiyear one. But you know so we're you know moving forward we're looking for other ways to other funding sources. You know the hope is that someday that this state wildlife grants program might be a dedicated funding source. So the states will know every year that they're getting that money or, you know, a larger funding source might come down, but, you know, looking for other partnerships in the state and that kind of thing, just trying to find ways to do this kind of conservation in the state. So people are interested in it. Um, you know, there's non-consumptive users out there that this is an important part of why they live in North Dakota. The species that are out there both hunted and fished and, you know, non-consumptive. And so we just want to be able to provide that for our constituents, so.
Casey: Is it, this brings up is there anything in the 2025 plan that you see as like a I really hope that the plan does like this success story. You know, we only have ten years, which typically isn't that long. But now this is the second iteration. So be 20 years into this like building from where we are. Or maybe that's too hard to see.
Patrick: No, I, I think for my vision of it, um, and this is kind of a national vision, too. You know, as I meet with, um, other states that are obviously in the same boat that we are, as you know, we've been at this for 20 years. And I would say that a lot of people in our states don't know exactly what the State Wildlife Action Plan is, or maybe I've never heard of it. Right. So, you know, trying to promote it like this podcast will do and trying to incorporate citizen science and things like that, to try to get people involved and have them understand that this is for them, you know, this is for their species, for their state. And, uh, you know, it's important to us all. So.
Cayla: I think on the podcast that Elisha said butterflies are metal. So that's. Yeah. You're hoping that.
Casey: Butterflies are metal.
Cayla: That's the trending thing in ten years. Yeah. Nongame are.
Casey: Hopefully they're not just metal.
Cayla: Yeah, I mean we could be there in ten years. Yeah. They're literally all that's left.
Casey: Just like our sharptailed grouse out here.
Cayla: Yeah yeah. That's depressing.
Casey: All right.
Cayla: Yeah. Well, thanks for being on. Yeah.
Patrick: Thanks for, uh, for letting me talk about, uh, our world, uh, conservation section.
Casey: And it's always easy when you get something that you talk about that you live and breathe every day, you know?
Patrick: Yeah. I, uh, got some advice a long time ago from a former boss that said, if you can't talk about what you do on a daily basis, that you're maybe not doing what you should be doing.
Casey: You're not paying attention. So what can you talk about? That's what you're doing, right?
Patrick: So I had no problem coming in and talking about this. So appreciate it.
Cayla: Yeah. All right. We'll get into the department droppings. So the Spring Light Goose Conservation Order is open now through May 10th. The licensing for this I was working on the news release and it was like, I don't know who's going to do this because they have to figure out. But you need a resident combination or small game. After April 1st you'll need the 2026 one. So if you're going to go before April 1st, your 2025 one's still good.
Casey: So essentially, you're just base license that you need to hunt anything in the state.
Cayla: Yeah. Um, if you're a nonresident there is a special spring light goose license. Everybody, including kiddos, need an electronic waterfowl restoration stamp, the e-stamp. Same thing if you if it's before April 1st, the 2025 one's still good. After April 1st, you'll need to get the 2026 one.
Casey: Which you'll be then good for 2026 fall.
Cayla: Uh, yeah. And if you're a kid, I think you just need the general game and habitat. You don't need that small game or combo, but the e-stamp. So good luck figuring that out. Also, if you're a nonresident kid, if you're a nonresident kid, then we let you just need the general game and habitat and the e-stamp. You don't need that spring light. So if you're under 16 nonresident. Yeah. So good luck hunting and figuring out your license.
Casey: Call if you got...
Cayla: Yep. Yep.
Casey: We've got the moose, elk, sheep deadline for the big three is March 25th, so pay attention for that coming up.
Cayla: Again, like I mentioned, new licenses are needed April 1st. They should be on sale already now. And it's also a new boat registration year. So if you're in there, just go ahead and get your boat registration updated.
Casey: Yep. Get it and get it ready to put on so you're not driving out to open water going, oh I can't go today or pushing the limits. New fishing proc year. So there's been some minor changes but check out the new fishing proc. As we come into April 1st, there's a few changes, mostly lessening any, um, rules. So some good changes there. But now that we've dropped the droppings, you can get off the pot and get outdoors.