In this episode of NDO Podcast we visit with Joe Lucas, Department game warden supervisor, about the top hunting and fishing violations in 2025, the process to becoming a game warden, and some interesting stories from the field this fall, one of which involves an emu.
Cayla: Welcome to episode 90 of the NDO podcast. On this episode, we're going to talk about kind of our warden's year in review. So like number of violations, violations by, uh, different type. Um, some other hopefully good stories and then. Yeah, just what's going on uh, with our wardens. So to do that we have Joe Lucas, uh, department game warden supervisor for northwest North Dakota. So yeah, thanks for being on and making the trip down today, Joe.
Joe: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on today.
Cayla: Uh, yeah. If you just want to go over maybe even just a little bit of your path to becoming a game warden. Um, but then, yeah, a little bit about your role now.
Joe: Yep. Sure. Um, yeah. Like I said, name's Joe Lucas. I'm the warden supervisor in the northwest part of the state. Um, I've been with the department since 2016. That's when I got hired on as a district game warden. Um, started out in Watford City. I was there for about five years. Then 20 would have been 2021, transferred over to Turtle Lake, um, as the district warden in Turtle Lake. Moved over to God's country.
Casey: That's right.
Joe: And, uh, no. Then, uh, yeah. Spent a couple years there, and then, uh, 2023 was promoted to the region three warden supervisor. So now I oversee eight wardens in the northwest part of the state. Um, well, I guess technically nine now because we have a full time temporary in Minot, but eight warned districts I should say no. It's a it's a fun part of the state. We got a little bit of everything going on. I mean, you got the prairie pothole country down by Turtle Lake and Sheridan County, and that goes pretty much all the way up to the, you know, Canada Montana border. You got Lake Sakakawea, you got the Missouri River. So there's just a lot of variety, a lot of a lot of opportunities for outdoor recreation. So it's a fun place to work.
Casey: How many how many counties is that, Joe, do you remember.?
Joe: Off the top of my head? No, I'd have to count here.
Casey: Okay. Because I just think sometimes, like, people don't realize how much country our wardens cover.
Joe: About ten counties. If I might be missing one.
Casey: So we've got eight, eight wardens covering ten counties. Yeah. So?
Joe: So it's pretty much. Yeah.
Casey: And if anybody knows McLean County, that's a big county. You've actually got two in McLean County right.
Joe: Yeah. So yeah some of the counties are huge. Mclean County is big, McKenzie County is huge. Um, you know and they each kind of have their own challenges. You know, McKenzie County is big But yet you can be on one side of the river and you could, you know, get a call on the other side and it's going to take you two hours to get there even though you can see it. So. Mhm. Um.
Casey: Yeah. And then like you said you've got some pretty busy areas.
Cayla: It does kind of have everything. I don't know I was trying to think about the other three quarters like you. Ha. You have like Badlands, big game, Lake Sakakawea, plenty of waterfowl, upland.
Casey: Yep.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: I mean, you've got some pretty big recreating fishing lakes. Yeah.
Cayla: All right. I don't know if we want to get into, like, your anything specific in your district or just. Yeah. The year in review stuff.
Joe: Yeah. I mean, I don't know, just get into the year review stuff here, I suppose.
Casey: Um, well, I was just gonna say maybe don't know the number. How many wardens do we have in the state?
Joe: Uh, full time.
Casey: I should know this, too. I think it's.
Joe: Just over 40. Yeah.
Cayla: yeah, Deputy.
Casey: Yeah, I know, I'm, like, I should know this, too. That's why I'm asking Joe. So I know.
Joe: But there's less in the field..
Casey: Yeah, okay.
Joe: Out working you know that each have their own assigned district. But, um, you know, four district warden, supervisors, operation supervisor, chief investigator, investigation supervisor, and our pilot. So then we do have a full time temporary right now, which February 1st, he'll be, uh, actually becoming full time because Mike Raskaa could just put in in Stanley, just put in, um, for his retirement. And he's been with us for 37 years. So he's been working here more than I'm 32. So, you know. Yeah, he's, uh, it's going to be sad to see him go. A lot of experience there. So.
Casey: Yeah. No, I just wanted to kind of get that picture in everybody's head. How many are out there as we go through some of these numbers and some of the things that that you guys do, it's it's kind of amazing that you cover this much, this much ground. Yep. So but yeah, maybe let's get right into it.
Cayla: Yeah. So I looked at last year's numbers just when I saw this years just to compare some things. But, um, when you just look at the first one, the big summary one, total violations, it was like almost nearly the same, I guess I didn't write down the last years, but it was like almost exactly the same.
Joe: Yeah. So, um, I think I have 2024’s with me here. Um, yeah, it's fairly close. Um, this year's like, the total violations was 2415, um, 2024, uh, would have been 2400. So, yeah, I mean, pretty much right on the
Casey: 15 new individuals, no 515 new violations. I guess it could have been the same individual.
Cayla: Hopefully not.
Casey: Yeah, right.
Cayla: Uh, but then, uh, one of the things we always like to say is like with that, nearly 50,000 contacts by those ones. So if you I don't know what the math is there, but it's most of the encounters are positive obviously. Yeah.
Joe: Yeah. Exactly. I mean the, the field contacts are um, you know, that's basically anytime a warden is out in the field just doing their job checking, uh, um, you know, this time of year, mostly checking ice fishermen. Could be somebody trapping, you know. It's basically just a license check contact in the field. Um, so we've been keeping track of those for some time now, and it's kind of cool to, like you said, just see how how much of an impact we're making. You know, interacting with sportsmen where it is positive. You know, we're not issuing citations for violation. Um, and, you know, some of these violations that some of them didn't even stem from a field contact. I mean, there could be a big investigation where there's 20, 30 citations issued in a big case. Um, you know, so it's even a smaller percentage of field contacts that actually result in a, in a violation.
Casey: So and I would even say that not all the ones that result in a violation are a bad contact.
Cayla: Right yeah.
Casey: A lot of them are positive learning experience for everybody.
Joe: So right at the end of the day, yeah, sometimes, you know, issue a citation doesn't mean they're a bad person by any means. Um, you know, there's probably a lot worse things they could be doing. But at the end of the day, you know, sometimes that is our job that has to be addressed. But.
Casey: Um, so maybe let's get into some of the, the common ones that, that you guys see.
Joe: Sure. Um, common ones, um, you know, these ones pretty much show up on the top of the list every year. Um, big one, hunting and fishing without a license. That's just always going to be something. I mean, even though they've got a lot of ways to purchase a license, whether it's just they forget or don't care, I'm not sure, but, um, and between it's the same code, so it's grouped together. But I would say fishing without a license is probably the more prevalent of the two between hunting and fishing. So yeah, this year, 251 of those citations issued. Another common one failed to carry license on person. So, um, even though you have a license, you still need to have a way to be able to show us in the field that you have one. You know, a lot of ways to do that. Now, you can still have your paper copy that. A lot of people still do because I don't know, maybe they don't want to carry their phone with them in the field. Something like that. But you could have a screenshot of it on your phone. The easiest way is to have the app.
Cayla: Yeah, I was gonna say big push for the app that.
Joe: People are starting to figure that out. Um, and it works good. It's easy for them to pull up. As long as they load their information into the app before they don't have service.
Cayla: Right. Right. Yeah. Make sure you log in.
Joe: Log in. Get all your stuff in there. Get it in your wallet. Um. And then it's easy to just pull up, you know, you don't need service, and it's pretty easy for us to look through. So.
Cayla: Yeah, especially you're not trying to, like, scroll back to your the picture you took of it in your phone. Like.
Casey: And I would say concentrate on hunting and fishing and not like social media. And then your battery will be good.
Joe: Yep. Yep.
Joe: But yeah. No the the apps like you said it's nice for that. You don't have to scroll through your 200 pictures you've taken since you bought your license.
Casey: Yeah. Interesting. I, I would it would be interesting to know how many people got a failure to carry and have their phone on them. I'm guessing it's a lot because.
Cayla: I don't know many people.
Joe: Yeah.
Casey: So you're. I mean, it's right. It's just loaded up. Let's do it, you know?
Joe: So, yeah, it's a pretty easy one to, um, to have, but, um, then unfortunately, another one that is always common and went up this last year from the previous year's inadequate personal flotation devices. You know, this is kind of a frustrating one to see. I mean, it's one of the biggest safety factors when you're, you know, doing any sort of boating. Um, I mean, it can save your life. So that's why it's law. You have to have them. So anytime, um, you know, somebody on a boat or vessel, you need to have a wearable one on board for each person. You know, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to wear one unless. The only exception to that is kids ten and under. If they're on a watercraft, they need to have one on at all times. It's still good to wear though. I mean, yeah, you know, Unfortunately, you know, most years we do have to respond to incidents where people drown on the water. And the majority of the time, I mean, they're not wearing their life jacket, and that's probably the biggest factor in that. So. But yeah, this year, 272 citations for that, which was up from last year. I have a note here is 241. So um, not the trend we want to see. We want to see that go down every year.
Casey: We had a few more accidents this year that people lost their lives because of this.
Joe: Right.
Casey: Seem like.
Joe: Yeah.
Casey: Duck hunting.
Cayla: Yeah. I was gonna say more so in the fall. It was a couple back to back that was.
Joe: Yeah.
Joe: Right. So yeah, that's one of those instances where you're not legally required to wear one, but it's certainly a good idea to have one on, you know. Yeah. And maybe with hunting it might get overlooked because people think, oh, the water is shallow, I'm wearing waders, all that stuff. But if you've ever had water, cold water go over your waders.
Joe: It's not good.
Casey: So because we had I believe there was one that did involve a boat.
Joe: Yep.
Casey: And they should have had their life jacket on.
Joe: Sure.
Casey: And then there was one where they just fell through the ice with waders on, I think. And, um. Yeah, probably would have saved their life.
Joe: I heard of another incident in the southeast where they had a couple of duck hunters that were wearing their life jackets. They ended up overturning their boat, uh, cold water. And, uh, I mean, they were wearing their life jackets, and they're okay. I mean, yeah, it was probably a pretty scary experience but they're still here.
Casey: So. That's right.
Joe: So, yeah. Um, another common one use of a shotgun, capable of holding more than three shells.
Cayla: I was surprised that one was so high. I guess I just.
Casey: Well, I, I think it stems from a lot of people that go snow goose hunting in the spring when it's not required. You can you can have.
Cayla: Do that many people. One goes snow goose hunting and then two, take the time to take it out. I don't know, it's just like, what are you guys doing?
Casey: I don't.
Cayla: I don't know.
Casey: I shoot a double barrel now I don't have to worry about.
Joe: Then you don't gotta worry.
Casey: But but yeah, I mean, I know a lot of folks where it's like, you know, you get out that first time in the fall and you're like, all right, everybody got their plug in. Somebody's like, oh no, I forgot to put it in. It's like, well, let's go find a chokecherry bush and make a plug.
Joe: And yeah, we've, uh, definitely helped a lot of people in the field where it's like, yeah, you need to get a plug in there. And I mean, they're kind of freaking out. They might be here from out of town, and it's like I left it at home. It's like, doesn't have to be fancy as long as you have cut a pencil down. Or I've even had people just get sticks and cut them to the right length.
Casey: And chokecherries are usually nice and straight. They work pretty good.
Joe: Yep. Just got to make sure you don't lose your spring out in the field. Yeah that doesn't go flying out.
Casey: Mmm.
Joe: Um, yeah. And honestly I think in my experience it's probably been a higher violation rate just with small game like upland game bird hunters more so than waterfowl hunters. I don't know, maybe just because like if.
Casey: It's the first season.
Joe: Yeah. That or I mean if like say they're coming from out of state, I mean for waterfowl, that's a federal thing. Um, they're probably used to that in their state where, you know, some states vary as far as upland goes, some states require it, some states don't. Where we do for upland game.
Cayla: But yeah, I don't know. Just surprised so many people take it out.
Casey: I just waste shells.
Cayla: Are you gonna shoot five times because like.
Casey: People that do.
Cayla: Especially upland hunting I don't know, I guess, I guess.
Casey: Yeah, I know people that sometimes it takes five shots to hit it.
Cayla: Oh well, yeah, but at five shots, it's out of there.
Joe: Yeah. If I get to my third shot, it's guaranteed just out of frustration.
Casey: This is just a reminder for whatever's getting away that I'm still shooting at you. Uh, yeah. We, the highlights here that you guys have down believe identification of sex on game. Imagine this is is this more with a big game or more upland.
Joe: Yeah. Mostly um for birds, you know, for upland, um, as well as waterfowl. Um, so. Yeah, anytime somebody's going to be transporting any upland game or waterfowl, um, you need to leave ID attached to that just so that, you know, when you get checked, uh, we're able to tell what it is. You know, if you just have a bunch of breast meat. I mean, we can tell the difference between a teal and a Canada goose size, but between a pintail, and.
Casey: If you did a good job cutting it up.
Joe: But that's that's the reason we have that is so that it's able to be ID'd in the field as far as what it is. So, um.
Casey: Is this a non resident thing or a resident thing? Because sometimes I think like residents have the perception like I'm in North Dakota. Right. Sure. And so I'm only three miles from home or whatever it is or ten miles. 20 miles, you know.
Joe: Yeah. I mean, it's probably both. Um, I mean, it's maybe a little lower for people that are just hunting around their house because a lot of times you're not cleaning them until you get home. Which once you're at your residence, you're fine to clean as as you please. It's just the whole, um, the transporting aspect where you need to have that ID on it.
Cayla: Yeah, I think can't remember what podcast. I feel like we already talked about this, but maybe just like with, uh, bird numbers being good, so good in the northwest, I just feel like we keep ending up hunting with people that have, like, never done that because they're just so used to hunting around their area. So they just go home and then they're like, what do you mean you have how do I do this? Which also we just put out that video with Marty on the three different ways to clean a pheasant. Um, one of which being to like, leave a piece of ID on, but, um, yeah, leave it on.
Joe: Um, yeah. Otherwise, uh, a couple other, um, highlights from this year compared to last year, use of motor vehicle off established trail is way down, obviously, because we have the change in legislature that allows that with landowner permission because, I mean, that was something that we dealt with quite frequently, especially during the deer gun season.
Casey: So these I noticed there is nine on here.
Joe: Yeah, I do see that.
Casey: And I'm wondering like is that maybe a public land issue.
Joe: Um.
Casey: Um, because it was just for private. Or maybe a landowner didn't give somebody permission.
Joe: Yeah. I mean, it probably could be either one of those. Um, I guess I'm not familiar in my region with what the exact scenario was with those, but yeah, I probably could have been either one of those scenarios, um, or.
Cayla: Well, no. What would you get this maybe dumb. Like, what if you. Because the intent was like, you can now like drive to your deer stand, for example. But like, what if someone was still kind of abusing that and, like, hunting? Would that still be this violation or would that be a different one?
Joe: Uh, probably fall under a different one. This would just be, you know, driving off trail. Not so much like shooting from a motor vehicle or chasing game with your vehicle. That'd be a separate violation.
Cayla: Okay.
Casey: Okay.
Joe: Um, another highlight here as, uh, I think last year was the top county to Ramsey County with 277 citations. Mhm. Um, so yeah, Ramsey County around that Devils Lake area. I mean they just have a lot of people. I mean, anytime you get.
Casey: Well, this would include fishing and hunting, right?
Joe: Yeah, exactly. This is the the year tally from January through December of 2025. So.
Cayla: Um, yeah, I guess if you think about the top violations, like fishing without a license, inadequate life jackets, then it's like.
Casey: And then you get into the waterfall situation where those are the people that maybe were spring snow goose.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: Yeah. Devils Lake is a or Ramsey County is a destination for waterfowl hunting and.
Joe: Yep. So they got a they're they're busy all year long. So that's no no surprise with that one.
Casey: But but we did make the top ten.
Cayla: I was just giving Joe a hard time because they did it in 2024. So I don't know if or maybe it's a good thing. Maybe they got stricter I don't know. Yeah.
Joe: No. You know I mean there's a few things that can kind of, you know, each year make the amount of citations per county kind of go up or down. I mean, a lot of it's just what's on the landscape. Um, you know, the far east end of Sakakawea. Um, this summer, I think the fishing was probably the walleye fishing was probably even better than, like, what the mid-lake usually is, like Van Hook area, stuff like that. So, I mean, anytime the fishing is good, there's just going to be higher violation rate. There's more people fishing, more fish being caught. Um, pheasant numbers. I think we're probably about the same as your prior, but I mean, there's a lot of birds and but we did it seemed like we did have a lot of pheasant hunters. Um, so, I mean, even those couple things where, you know, there's good fishing, good, good upland hunting, you know, that can easily kind of make the the violations go up there. Um, additionally did have a different game warden in garrison. Ken Skuza retired this summer. And then in July, it would have been end of June. Connor Folkers was in Watford City and he moved to Garrison. Um, you know, and sometimes too, you know, not that, uh, nothing against Ken, not that he wasn't working, but sometimes a different warden just has a different little take on, you know, how they're working and, you know. Yeah. Um, you know, maybe that can kind of make the violation rate change, too, because maybe they're working in an area that hadn't been worked for a little bit just because everybody kind of works different. So, um, that could result in that too but.
Casey: 30 years younger, you just might have been able to stay up four hours later or those kinds of things better.
Cayla: See better.
Joe: But so yeah, there's.
Casey: I don't know, Ken was Ken was pretty known for writing a ticket. He wasn't afraid to.
Joe: So it's not that Ken wasn't doing it. So.
Casey: Hmmm.
Joe: But yeah. No, um, I guess back to boating. There's one other one that, well, I guess boating and fishing that went up, um, that we want to see going down was our ANS violations. Um, this year we had, we wrote 92 ANS violations across the state. So that's, you know, people not draining water out of their live wells before transporting them, having their plugs in, you know. So that's, um, we do ANS check stations frequently. We did a couple in our region. I know other regions did at least a couple per region. So, you know, that's something we're really trying to make sure people, um, are abiding by and like 2024, there were 73. So it's, you know, gone up by 20 this last year. So that's another one that we want to see start going down.
Casey: Yeah. Yeah. It would be I should have pulled the licensing data from you know last year to this year just to see like if fishing licenses went up 20% or 5%, you know, and you only went up on ANS violations by 1%, maybe you're not doing too bad, right?
Cayla: Yeah. No there.Slight, they're a little bit down. Yeah.
Casey: So that's a problem.
Cayla: Well and that's fishing season. So not January 1st through December 31st. But yeah they're a little bit down from the prior year. So not good. No bueno.
Joe: Yeah. Really, the last one that I had highlighted as a change from 24 to 25, our wildlife management area violations went down almost in half. Um, 2024, we had 115 citations. Um, and in 2025, we had 56. So, you know, that's anything like fail to obey posted regs. Um, you know, big one that we have in our region like regs, um, like at our gun ranges where people are like shooting garbage or alcohol on the range, things like that. So that's kind of the that's the one that went down quite a bit. Was that which is good.
Casey: Yeah. That's kind of interesting actually, because I feel like over the last number of years, like there's been more and more use of wildlife management areas just with everything that's going on, whether that's whether that's reduced habitat or reduced access. Like, it just seems like the public lands are starting to get more and more used. So that's that's really good to see there.
Joe: Yeah. So we're doing a good job, I think, of, uh, patrolling our public lands and increasing compliance with that. So. Yeah.
Joe: But um, yeah. I mean moving on I guess from the, the violations, um, you know, just a lot of good other stuff going on aside from just our field contacts. Um, you know, big one like I guess in the, in the northwest that we, I mean, we had a fairly busy deer season because we were just kind of in one of those spots where, um, you know, we've got some units that have quite a few tags. Um, so anytime you have a decent amount of deer tags, you're going to have some shenanigans going on. But yeah, you know, it was good. We made some really good deer cases, but also we missed a few, um, by just, you know, people observed a violation but just didn't get quite enough information for us. So that's something we, um, you know, kind of want to stress to people is if you can without, you know, getting yourself too involved. Um, try and get a license plate because, I mean, for instance, we had a couple where, you know, somebody observed somebody shoot a deer, leave it or shot it knowing, you know, they shouldn't be shooting it. They're on posted property and call the neighbor. And is somebody supposed to be hunting here? It's like, no. And, uh, yeah, they were right at the vehicle and, you know, didn't get a license plate. And then by the time we got there, they were gone. So those ones were kind of frustrating. But we certainly did have have some good cases like that too. But.
Casey: Mhm.
Joe: Um, on that note, there's also uh, we had some landowners that were getting kind of frustrated and they maybe gave it a little too much effort trying to get a license plate. Um, so, you know, we kind of want to have that happy medium. We don't want people, you know, driving 100 miles an hour across our stubble field to try and catch a vehicle and put themselves at risk because, you know, we did have one of our wardens get a video sent to him of a landowner. And, uh, yeah, they're in their field. Um, they weren't supposed to be shot a deer, and they were trying to, you know, get the license plate. But the video that the passenger, I think it was a passenger, hopefully that took it. Um, I mean, it was a minute long, and I don't think he let off the gas once in that minute going across the stubble field, and the person ended up getting away. But so yeah, both extremes not getting a license plate and then probably giving it a little too much effort.
Casey: You know, you talk about uh, you know people what are ways that people can report these things. I mean, obviously if, if they've got your, your phone number or Clayton's phone number, local wardens number, that's one way to do it.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. For sure. If they, you know, observe a violation, have some information for us. The. Yeah. If they have the local warden’s number that's great. Um, but I mean, even during deer season, there are some times where we may be off or whatever. Um, so you might not we might not get a call back right away. So if it's a legitimate like there's something going on right now, probably the best way would just be to call the RAP hotline, you know, and that's printed pretty much everywhere in our guides, all that stuff. Um, but that goes through our state emergency communications center and they, you know, get that information and they're able to look at the schedule, look at the map, see which one's working, and be able to get that out to the closest working warden.
Casey: So yeah, that's the thing. Like people don't like you guys cover certain areas. You have your warden districts. But like in the in Clayton's district, if he's way on the southeast corner and something's happening in the northwest corner, it might be that the guy from Minot is actually closer. And they'll jump lines.
Joe: Right, for sure. Um, yeah. Especially during the fall when you kind of get all over. It doesn't necessarily mean the warden whose district it is has to respond. If somebody is closer. Um, we'll definitely go help them out and go where we have to go for that stuff.
Cayla: It's also in the app, I think, like the last one is or RAP is somewhere in there, and then you can just hit like call now and it loads it up for you, so.
Casey: It'll pop right up on your dial pad.
Joe: But, uh, no addition to that. Um, we've had, you know, outside of our normal warden duties that everybody that we've kind of talked about, you know, our field contacts and, you know, issuing citations, warnings, all that.
Cayla: I didn't think there were normal warden duties. Yeah.
Casey: Right outside of what everybody thinks.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, that's probably a better way to put it but.
Joe: But, um, you know, I mean, a lot of stuff that people kind of often overlook is just a lot of the good, like public outreach that we end up doing. You know, and I know this goes on all over the state for our wardens, but I kind of know some of the events, like we did in the northwest this year that were really good and, you know, able to engage with a lot of people that we probably wouldn't have, maybe wouldn't have been able to in the field. Maybe, you know, they're not the most avid hunter or Hunter, fisherman, outdoors person, that sort of thing. So it's a good opportunity to engage with some of these people, especially like youth, for instance. I mean, the obvious ones, we go to sports shows. Um, this last year was my first time going to NASP. Um, Shawn. Shawn and I had the rap trailer up there, and that was a pretty good one. That was a lot of got to talk to a lot of people that day.
Casey: You guys get involved. I mean, I've had you even out at hunter ed classes and stuff.
Joe: So yeah, I mean.
Casey: Those are always fun because when you get the warden up there, you get questions. You can probably make a list of people you want to watch next fall.
Cayla: Yeah. My dad.
Casey: What happens if you shoot five pheasants? Uh, put last name down.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. There's always the hypothetical questions.
Casey: Yeah.
Joe: So if my uncle did this. Yeah, it's like okay, but no, that's, um. But yeah, we, we do a lot of. Yeah. Going to help out with Hunter and that sort of stuff. Some specific ones like in our corner of the state that we did this last year, the Lacs National Wildlife Refuge in Kenmare. They put on a it's called Honker Day and it's just basically kind of like a day out, you know, an outdoors related day camp for kids. But I mean, it's it's got quite a big following. There's a lot of kids that go to it. I think there's 90 kids there that day that we did it this fall. Um, but I think there's 4 or 5 wardens from our region that went up there and we kind of helped out with that. And we just have a little station where it's game warden scenarios where the kids play game warden and where the bad guys. So like, for instance, I was, uh, with Jim and we were the, the naughty fishermen in a boat, and we just have it staged on, on shore, but we have a little John boat. And, you know, we were doing all kinds of bad stuff, littering and keeping too many fish. And so the kids get up, you know, they get their, uh, little duty belts on and everything. And we have a few spare pairs of, uh, handcuffs that.
Casey: Hopefully you have the keys for.
Joe: Yeah. We do. We make sure beforehand. But you know, so they get to watch us and then, you know, they go do a field check as a warden. And, you know, there's kids ages from like four to, you know, early teens. And it's just kind of funny seeing how some of them react. Some are pretty good. And they get into it like, oh yeah, I need to see your license and some you're just in handcuffs immediately. But no, it's that's really fun. I mean, just doing those kind of events.
Casey: You guys don't give them the tasers, though.
Joe: No, no, no, no, that we'd be we'd be riding the lightning quite a bit that day, but, um. So. Yeah, just just a lot of good stuff, you know, and a lot of times around the holidays, too, helping out with, like, shop with a cop. Um, I know stuff a squad that sort of things. Just a lot of good community outreach events that, you know, people just might not think of that we do all the time.
Casey: But yeah. And I don't know if people realize, like in North Dakota, our game wardens are peace officers, essentially, now usually when we do something outside of game and fish stuff, we have to be requested by highway patrol or whoever that might be, but you guys get involved and stuff like that, search and rescue things and all kinds of stuff.
Joe: Yeah. So like, um, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of stuff to. Yeah, search and rescue is a big one for us, especially on the water. Um, sometimes during the fall with hunters that get lost, um, you know, if there's, you know, natural disasters, you know, I mean, we might help with that, too. I mean, I know, like, back, you know, like when Watford City had the tornado. We're helping out with that sort of stuff. So, yeah, there's a lot more to it than just driving around checking licenses. Yep.
Casey: Yeah. I know in the past they've been called to help with flooding in Fargo. And you need to, you know, need boats and ways to move people in and out of spots that they're not getting in and out of without.
Joe: Absolutely.
Casey: Mhm. Yeah. So maybe hit on some unique stories in your district. I know you had, you had an elk that was poached and you never have found.
Joe: Still working on that one. Um, so yeah, that was, uh, um, an elk that was shot and left over by Goodrich. Mhm. Um, it was mid-October, I believe that was pheasant I think. Pheasant opener. I think so, yeah. Still working on that. So yeah. If anybody has any information on that um I know we've put out some press releases and stuff but again call call RAP if you heard anything, even if it's something I don't know, you might have just heard that you don't think is of any value. Let us know. And um, that sort of stuff.
Cayla: How often does it just like simmer? Because I could see someone being like, okay, it's been enough time. I'm at the bar. Yeah, yeah.
Joe: Yeah, you know, sometimes it happens, you know, maybe people get comfortable or something. Yeah, after a while, but, um. Yeah. No.
Casey: Uh, I don't know if people realize, like, so, like when a critter like that is just reported, like, found it out here, like, it's not just a it's a dirty job like you guys, you guys go out there and dig through this thing that may or may not have been dead for a while to see if you can find evidence of of poaching.
Joe: Yeah.
Casey: Or or if you see evidence of poaching. Now you gotta find more evidence so you can.
Joe: Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot of, um, a lot of times, you know, you just there's an animal that's reported laying dead in a field. And just by looking at it, you know, you probably don't know how it died. So kind of looking for evidence on the scene of, you know, was it did it die right here? Is there a blood trail? Did it come from somewhere else? Um, a lot of times you can't just tell if an animal was potentially shot just by looking at it. So, yeah, a lot of times you end up getting dirty or skinning the hide back. You're doing all sorts of stuff trying to, um, you know, kind of do a necropsy in the field. It it can get pretty crude at times, especially like you said, if it's been there for a day or more.
Casey: So do you guys usually wind it with a metal detector first?
Joe: Yeah. I mean, sometimes that can kind of give us an area to focus on right away. Um, but and, you know, sometimes it's easy. Sometimes there's just a, there's just a big hole and it's like, well, there, there it is. But, um, yeah, yeah.
Casey: And then you go look for bullet fragments or, or the bullet to see what, what you're dealing with. Yeah.
Joe: And. Yeah. And, uh, if we're lucky, you know, if it's a pass through, there's really not a whole lot of evidentiary value to. I mean, you can confirm that it was killed by a rifle or bow or whatever, but. Yeah, if you if you're able to pull a bullet that doesn't necessarily or arrow whatever, that doesn't necessarily mean like the case is made. I mean, right, it's not CSI like, see, we don't have a database of like, whose bullet this was. It's more for down the road. Um, if you need to match it to something that we have the capability to do so.
Cayla: It's funny that one, I think, was that one and the deer one, I don't know if they were the top, but top several of our social media posts of the year. But um, yeah, the people's comments on there. Like especially I just remember the deer one. It's like, well, muzzleloader season is open or how'd you know it was shot? Maybe you just died. Like all these comments. It's like, I think we looked into it before. Yeah, before we put it out. Yeah. It's like, how do you know? Did you ever think of that? Gee, no, we didn't think that muzzleloader season was.
Joe: Yeah, there's a reason we're looking into it more, asking for help. So yeah, but you just. Yeah. You never really know what you'll run into. Uh, you know, one that sticks out to me from this fall was it was during deer season or game warden in Kenmare, Riley, he was out patrolling around. And it was the last week, I think it was the last weekend of deer season. And he's got all excited because he saw a truck parked next to a slough. Somebody was walking around in orange and he's like, it looked like they were, you know, grabbing something or doing like look like they had a deer down basically, which, you know, last year we'd get like all worked up. Oh, there's a vehicle off trail. But now it's like not as big a deal, but it's still something like, oh, you know, maybe somebody has a deer down, you know, um, and he sits there for a little bit and he's wearing orange and he's kind of moving back and forth, and you can see him grab something and throw it in the back seat of the truck, and he's like, back seat of the truck. Why? Like he's thinking deer like, oh, maybe it's no tag or something. Like he's trying to hide it. Um, so he waits for him to come out and meets him on the on the section line. And you've been doing any deer hunting today, and he's, you know, sitting there wearing his blaze orange and. No, no, just looking for my bird. He's like, okay, like pheasant? he's like. So he asked like your pheasant hunting. No, no, my my emu. And they're just like what? And as he says that you can you can't. You couldn't really see it on his body camera. But he said he could see it. Yeah. Um, emu is just peaks around the headrest and just staring at Riley, and he's like, okay, that’s not what I thought it was going to be.
Cayla: No violations for that.
Casey: No violations for that.
Joe: So, yeah, I had a conversation with the guy about his, uh, pet emus that frequently escape, I guess. Yeah.
Casey: The only thing better would have been him seeing it running across somewhere and being like, what the heck is that?
Joe: Yeah, but no, that that one got, Facebook famous. It ended up on, uh, ended up on the news in Minot of. Somebody saw it when they were out deer hunting. Took a picture of it. So thankfully it made it back home.
Cayla: So one of my favorite and Crookston, when I was in college, we were asking permission from this very old lady to goose hunt her field. Like for the year. Like, can we goose hunt these fields for the rest of the season? And we go up there and there's like cats everywhere, and she's just talking, and I feel like she was hard to hear and like her stories didn't make sense. So I'm kind of just like, not. I've sort of just tuned out at this point, like, okay, can we just get to the part where we.
Casey: Yeah, where we ask.
Cayla: Yeah, um, but we're trying to be nice because she's this old lady that lives by herself. And then at the end, she just goes, so now I've got an emu egg, Just like I don't even think he said emu. This entire conversation but it was like an inside joke with me and my friend. Now, just at the end of a well, now I've got an emu egg.
Casey: Yeah, they.
Joe: Are just kind of a random bird.
Cayla: Yeah, yeah. Weird.
Casey: Anything? Anything else? Top the list. I mean, you got to have like, is is your group of wardens the tallest group I know?
Cayla: I know, gosh.
Casey: There's some tall ones.
Joe: Yeah, we're up there. But I think, uh, I don't know, I think region one in the southeast, they have a couple that are.
Casey: Yeah. True.
Joe: The tallest. Um, but yeah, I don't know how that how that works, but yeah, in the last 3 or 4 hirings we've had, we're definitely, uh. Yeah, we've had some tall people.
Cayla: Someone will say, I got checked by a warden. They were tall.
Joe: Yeah, really not helpful. It's like, yeah, there's like five over 6' 5".
Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. There's tall and then there's really tall.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: You narrowed it down to five.
Joe: Yeah, for a staff meeting. If we ever do, like a department level. Uh, like basketball game.
Casey: If they can dribble.
Joe: Yeah.
Casey: I'm fairly tall, but I was never any good basketball.
Cayla: I can dribble, but obviously I could maybe just go under.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: At this point. Yeah. Six five is.
Casey: Mhm.
Cayla: Oh yeah I guess we were just gonna touch on uh recruitment. Um and just like I think we maybe did a podcast on this, but kind of what that looks like because we have an exam coming up. But yeah. Like how does that the path a little bit to becoming award.
Casey: And maybe so like wrap in you talked about the uh the temporary award we have on staff right now. Sure. How that all works when people apply.
Joe: Yep, yep. So, um, yeah, like you said, uh, coming up here, um, tentatively, the early part of June, um, will be testing for, um, a couple warden positions. They're both going to be, um, as of right now, there'll be a full time temporary position, which it's still a full time job. I know that word temporary kind of maybe freaks some people out, but it's still a full time job. It's basically you're you're hired, but you just don't. I mean, you don't have a, um, a district that's assigned to you yet. Um, because we do have some retirements coming up here that we're kind of planning for. So. So, yeah, that full time temporary position, um, historically, a lot of times you don't stay there very long. I think, Justin, that we've had now, he's probably been in that post the longest that I've known of, I mean. Close to a year. But, um, you know, he's enjoyed it. You know, like I said, coming coming up here starting in February, he'll be full time, so. But yeah, the two regular warden positions, um, we'll be testing in the first part of June. We're kind of trying something different here. The last couple of years, we used to only test in Bismarck, which, you know, had decent attendance. But over the past couple of years, we've been trying to try some fresh ideas, just trying to get, you know, more people, you know, maybe a little more convenient location for testing. So as of right now, like June 2nd, we have a test scheduled for 9 a.m. in Minot. The Minot Police Department, June 3rd in Fargo, June 5th in Bismarck, here at the Game and Fish headquarters. And then on June 4th, there will be one at the Game and Fish office in Dickinson. So kind of all four corners of the state make it more convenient for people. And yeah, the test historically, um, you know, you apply and then by applying, you know, you put your resume, cover letter, all that stuff when you normally apply for a job, but you're also saying that you're going to show up to take the test.
Casey: Yep.
Joe: Um, we used to have two tests. Um, this year is the first year we're going to be doing it. We just have one. Um, there used to be just kind of a general test that's kind of more of a little bit of hunting and fishing type, uh, outdoor questions, you know, maybe some species ID just kind of some general knowledge that, um, you know, that'd be beneficial to game wardens. Then there's more of a general aptitude test, which was the Wonderlic, which is kind of more just a timed problem solving thing. Um, and now we've kind of made our own tests. We're kind of blends the two together. So there's just one test, but so yeah, with that process, the I believe it's a top 15 test scores, then invited back for a panel interview. Um, you know, and then at that time do a background check, references, all that sort of stuff. And then as of right now, um, the interviews are typically a couple weeks after. Um, so like, right now we have it for the June 17th through 19th. Um, and those are usually in Bismarck here. So then say from the interviews, you know, whoever the top candidates are that get, um, job offers, um, your start date, you're looking at like September 1st and then kind of the, the field training portion of it, everybody has to go through field training. So if you are not already, um, North Dakota, a peace officer. You'll have to attend the academy. The academy here in Bismarck, North Dakota. Law enforcement training academy. Um. And that this year. Uh, that's end of September, and that runs through December. So that's a 12 week academy here in Bismarck. Um, you know, that's the same academy that, you know, whatever local PD or sheriff's office, um.
Casey: And you're hired at this time?
Joe: You are hired yes, you are getting paid to, to go through it. Um, at this point, then after that, there's the field l training portion that's usually three phases. Um, so the month before basic, um, they'd be like the headquarters phase where they're in Bismarck here. Um, that's kind of where they're, you know, learning department policy, um, going over some Century code stuff, just kind of doing a lot of the in-house stuff before they go to the Basic Academy. Um, then, yeah, once they get those two phases done, you're with your primary field training officer. Um, that's usually about a month, and each phase you kind of get more involved. You know, the first phase, you're kind of more of a working with your field training officer in the field, kind of learning how it all works. Second phase, you're kind of a little more on your own. You know, they're just kind of the shadow in the back, making sure you. Don't mess something up too bad. But and then phase three, you're pretty much on your own. And they're just kind of grading you on how you're able to do the job. So. So yeah, from start to finish, from test date of early June to being completely done, it'd be like from June 2nd, 2026 to March 27th of 2027, before, you know, they'd be fully done with training. So it's a long process, but it's fun. You learn a lot. Um, yeah, it's.
Casey: Yeah. And in training we try to get them involved in a little bit of everything. It's not just that you're stuck up in one spot only doing that thing. You may come to a big recreational lake area and then be up in part of the woods.
Joe: Yeah, like each phase of field training. Yeah. Um, you know, for phase one, you have your primary field training officer. Then for phase two, you have a secondary, which is a different field training officer. So you're getting a couple different perspectives doing it in a couple different districts. You get a variety of stuff. And then yeah for the final phase phase three you're back with your primary field training officer.
Casey: And then you're kind of like this what we've got now the full time temporary until we have that position that opens up.
Joe: Right, yep. So um, typically or or uh.
Casey: Unless we already have a position open, but.
Joe: Well, yeah, we'll we'll see. Um, but like I said, they usually don't stay in that position long. Um, and it's just you don't have your still the same pay. You just don't have full benefits until you're a full time employee. And then, yeah, you kind of are in that position until a full time opening comes up. And if you're doing good, then yeah, you can get promoted to a full time position.
Casey: So yeah. And typically we don't hire unless we foresee in the near future that there's retirements or something going on, that there will be open.
Joe: And there will be coming up here shortly. So, um, and then in addition to the two, um, district game warden positions, we'll also be looking to hire a warden pilot, um, at the same time. So that would be the same test dates.
Casey: Same test date, same kind of schedule, except.
Joe: Right.
Casey: You can fly.
Joe: Fly a plane. Yep. Yeah.
Cayla: Um, hopefully.
Casey: Yeah. Right.
Joe: Well, yeah, that's part of the requirements. You have to. So, um, but yeah. Same test dates for the the game warden pilot position. Uh, the I mean, the only difference in requirements for this, you need to have, you know, flight hours, um, have a commercial pilot's license and minimum 500 hours flying time. Similar. Similar thing, though. I mean, you don't have to be a law enforcement officer before, um, you know, they can get sent to the academy, just like the the regular district warden positions. So, um, but yeah, a little, a little different. They still go through the same training, they still do the field training and all that. But there's obviously another aspect there with the learning the aircraft and all that that we have. So.
Cayla: And what did we it's either a four year degree in wildlife or two year degree. Didn't we change that.
Casey: What's the minimum requirements I guess.
Joe: Yeah, so minimum requirements, um, for becoming a game warden in North Dakota. Yeah. You either need to have a four year degree. Um, we don't have any degree specified. You know, a lot of states you need to have either wildlife for, um, you know, criminal justice. It's. You just need to have a bachelor's, or you can have an associate's degree with two years of either law enforcement experience or wildlife experience. So.
Casey: Yeah.
Joe: Um, so, yeah, um, I mean, we have wardens that work for us that, you know, went to school to with for a regular biology degree or nursing degree or we have ones with teaching degrees. So I mean, you don't have to have a specific degree to be a warden.
Casey: So where did where did you go to school, Joe?
Joe: Uh, South Dakota state.
Casey: Yeah okay.
Joe: Just south of here.
Casey: You didn't bring it up. Yeah,
Joe: I didn’t.
Cayla: Ooo, so I just delete or?
Casey: So you went into wildlife?
Joe: Yeah. So I that's that's the path I took. I mean, um, I knew in high school I needed to do something. Um. Where you work outside. Um. I love hunting, love fishing. Just love being outside. So I kind of knew going in that this is something I was going to do. So at the time, that's the school that kind of stuck out to me. I grew up in southwest Minnesota. It was close. They had a good wildlife program. That's where I ended up going. Um, so yeah, I ended up with a four year bachelor's degree in wildlife and fisheries science. And then, um, once I kind of figured out in school that being a a warden is kind of what I wanted to do, I picked up a minor in criminal justice just to get a little extra coursework and kind of the law enforcement side of things. Yeah, that's certainly not the path everybody has to take. But then on that note, with, uh, speaking of college and education and path to becoming a game warden, um, this summer, for the first time, we're going to be having our enforcement seasonal work positions. So we're pretty excited about that. Um, we're going to be hiring four, uh, one for each region.
Casey: Just, uh, summer type of help.
Joe: Summer time help. Yeah. So this.
Joe: So this is more for kids that are enrolled in college or recently graduated. So it's not a full time job. It's basically just like our all of our other seasonal jobs that are over the summer. Um.
Cayla: How cool. That'll be cool.
Joe: Um, but no, we're we're excited for that. Um, already we've had seems like pretty good interest in it. Got a lot of good applicants, but, yeah, um, I actually did something similar in college in South Dakota. That's kind of the thing that solidified like, yeah, this is this is what I want to do. So, um, you know, we've been talking about it for a few years just trying to, you know, kind of trying to increase our recruitment because, I mean, we've been getting good applicants every time we test, but it just not getting quite the amount of people that we want. Um, but I mean, that's kind of across the board with a lot of stuff right now. But, um, so going to colleges, you know, going to career fairs, that sort of thing. And then this was kind of one of the last big things that we wanted to do to try and increase our recruitment is have a seasonal position where kids can get a or I say kids, but they're adults.
Casey: Yeah, right.
Joe: College students can get a, you know, firsthand look of what we do every day and be like, yeah, for sure. This is what I want to do. Or, you know, hopefully that's the reaction we get is, yeah, this is what I want to do. But, um, you know, and at the same time, we can kind of use it as a, you know, to our benefit, too. I mean, we can get a look like. Yeah, I think this person would be a good warden in the future. And we'll probably remember that come a couple years down the road when you apply for a full time position.
Casey: So, um. Yeah. And I mean worse comes to worse. They'll go back and tell a bunch of people who. Yep. What it was like and they're like hey that does sound like something I'd like to do.
Joe: Yep.
Cayla: Maybe they're like a local with some intel.
Casey: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Joe: But no, um, we're looking forward to it.
Casey: You wanna find the fishing spots.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: Go with the wardens. They're checking em.
Joe: Absolutely.
Casey: Mhm.
Cayla: All right. Yeah. Thanks for coming down.
Joe: Yeah. Thank you guys.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: Okay, we'll get into the department droppings. Uh, Turkey deadline is February 11th.
Casey: Are you already done, Cayla?
Cayla: I was done before we even put the news release out. It's on. It's live. Done.
Casey: All right, then, we've got the North Dakota Waterfowl Brigade camp is coming up this summer and application deadline for that is March 15th.
Cayla: The wardens were at that, too.
Casey: Yeah. You guys helped with that?
Cayla: Yeah. Checking me and my eight ducks. Um, HuntLink. Uh, if you haven't heard about that, it's a new feature. It's much like the coyote catalog. Um, but if you're a landowner experiencing depredation this winter, you can log in to your game and fish account. And at the bottom towards the end, there's, like, a hunter request form. Um, so yeah, you can request that some hunters like coyotes or, um, whether it's deer, turkeys, geese. Throughout the year, um, and then as a hunter, you can look at the map on our website as well and see, um, yeah. If there's anyone looking for somebody to help with their depredation issues.
Casey: Yeah. Just kind of a unique way to get hunters and landowners who want specific, specific things, looking for specific types of harvest or something out there, a way to a way to get in contact with each other. All right. Now that we've dropped the droppings, you can get off the pot and get outdoors.