In this episode of NDO Podcast we visit with Marty Egeland, Department education section leader, about the importance of providing access to places to shoot, our shooting range grant program and recent range projects.
(Intro music)
Cayla: Welcome to episode 85 of the NDO podcast. On this episode, we have Marty Egeland with us. Never been on before. Somehow. Um, he's the department education section leader. And we're going to talk a little bit about what he does. And then specifically, I guess, get into shooting ranges, management of those, what it takes to get one on the ground and whatever else we get into. But, um. Yeah. Thanks for being on Marty.
Marty: Oh, glad to be here. Glad to be here.
Cayla: Yeah. So, um, tell us a little bit about what you do, and then. Yeah, it sounds like before we were on here, he was saying this isn't. You accidentally ended up here.
Marty: Well, I did kinda. And, you know, I've always loved to hunt and fish. I grew up in northeast North Dakota and, uh, you know, after graduating high school, I went to, you know, uh, junior college in Devils Lake, which at the time was und Lake Region. And like a lot of these small colleges, they changed their name many times. And then I went to Und and, you know, I was going to go into engineering and that didn't that wasn't going to work out. And I thought about I have a lot of nurses in my family. So I thought about becoming an RN and then go to nursing school. And I realized that, uh, I lacked the empathy, you know, for a career in nursing. And so I'm at Und and I'm like, what am I going to do? I've already wasted three years, you know, in college and and of course, as we were talking before, not to make light of your age, but, you know, when I went to college, you know, you didn't have online registration, you got a big book that's about an inch thick with all the courses in there, and I'm just scrolling through it. What in the world am I going to do? And it's like, I didn't even know Und had a wildlife management program. And it's like, well, I like to hunt and fish, which is your first mistake. If you like to hunt and fish, that's not necessarily the key ingredients to do this job.
Casey: I always tell people, if you love to fish, go into wildlife. Yep. If you love to hunt, go into fisheries because then you won't get burned out by what you do.
Marty: Absolutely.
Cayla: So what happened?
Casey: I'm burnt out. That's why I keep moving jobs in the department.
Marty: So I thought, you know, I'll try this. I took a couple classes and I seemed like I did fairly well with it. And then, uh, that's kind of how I got into, uh, into this world, and I guess out of college, I didn't get a job right away. I worked in private industry for a couple years, and then I became a game warden. I did that for a few years. Um, and then after that, I was the outreach biologist in Grand Forks. I did a lot. And so, I mean, although this is the first time I've been on the podcast, I've done a lot of radio work over the years. I was up there for 17 years and did weekly radio shows. And then in August of 2017, I moved down here to work. And the funny thing is, although I have a degree in wildlife biology, I've yet to do one day of biological work in this field. You know, I went from enforcement to I and E to, you know, running some of our programs here that we run. So. So, yeah, it's, you know, a lot of us have that background, but what a lot of people don't realize is there's just a lot of other jobs in this agency that really have a lot to do with things behind the scenes and not necessarily managing the wildlife.
Casey: So yeah, it's a it's easily 50% people management and, and and that's like whether it's supervision working with the public or working with volunteers like you do. Maybe, maybe go into a little more about what your job is right now.
Marty: Oh, sure. And so in the education section, um, you know, when we talk about education and game and fish, we're talking mostly education for the hook and bullet crowd, whether it's hunter education, uh, hooked on fishing, national archery in the schools program, uh, things that get users out in the field. And we do work in conjunction with communications a little bit. In fact, Cayla started her career down in our section and moved up to communications. And a lot of that does involve, you know, an incredible amount of work with volunteers. You know, we've got a very small staff and, you know, down there in education section. Now, of course, we have three outreach biologists. But in our little office, we got a guy that manages Hunter ed guy that manages NASP, hooked on fishing. We got a secretary and you know, we got a part timer. So to run these programs with four people is not going to happen. So we we rely heavily on volunteers. You know, we have hundreds of volunteers that, you know, are able to make our programs work.
Casey: Do you know what that number of volunteers is? That we work with.
Marty: North of 500. Yeah. You know, and it varies people, uh, it's kind of like hunters, you know, there's churn in and churn out, you know, people are people, you know, fall out of the system, new ones come in. But then there's people that have volunteered for years. They last for 3 or 4 years and come in. So it's kind of a it's a number that's moving all the time.
Casey: All I know is it's a lot.
Marty: Yeah it's significant. And and we couldn't get this done. And of course times are changing and you know more things are being done online. We have home study courses. But for the bulk of our time we've had Hunter education and we just would not have been able to do it without volunteers. It would have just been mission impossible. And they are still very important.
Casey: Yeah, yeah. Well, you've, uh, you directly work with some of these shooting ranges and shooting range grants. Um, maybe go into what the, what those opportunities are for one. We'll start there, I guess.
Marty: Yeah. So part of mine, uh, part of my duties and besides supervising that section is I manage the shooting range grants, and that's kind of a I'm kind of a middleman or go between between the clubs and the US Fish and Wildlife Service. And we have another gentleman, Corey Wentland, here that actually submits everything. And these are all pittman-robertson funds, which you guys talked on your show many times, and every time you go out and buy a box of ammo or a gun, you know you're paying 11% at the manufacturers level. And that comes back for us to help manage wildlife. Well, part of that is also to increase shooting opportunities. And that's where this money comes from. So we get a little money every year to, you know, build new clubs, uh, help clubs, you know, buy, you know, new infrastructure needs, you know, fix things up and stuff. And so we kind of help them kind of navigate through the federal paperwork to apply for the grant. So they apply for grants with me October 1st. And I go through their paperwork and find everything that they're missing because they're not used to dealing with federal grant paperwork. And once we get all the pieces in, then we'll submit it into the US Fish and Wildlife Service, hopefully about this time of year, December. And we'd like to hear back in February. And that the reason we have that timeline is we know it takes a number of months to work through that system. We want those grant agreements in place, so when spring hits, they can hit the ground running and building because we have a short construction season in North Dakota. So there's kind of a reason that we do this in the winter. We try to get all that, all the, you know, uh, I's dotted and T's crossed before we hit the spring work and stuff. So.
Casey: So remind me, Marty, the shooting range stuff isn't really that old as far as pittman-robertson goes. Like where there's been a kind of a a dollar amount carved out for that. Is that set in stone or how is that dollar amount figured out? Like is there a certain percentage that has to go there now?
Marty: Yeah. It, uh, you know, it varies a little bit. And to be honest with you, I don't, you know, they tell me what I have to spend. I don't know all the parameters on how they come up with that number. But every year we have, uh, we've got a certain amount of federal money and state money, and this is a pretty small pot of money. And, um, you know, we utilize that for, you know, kind of small grants for clubs and stuff. And, um, but we have had recently, since I moved down here, we've had, uh, more money, you know, and there's been kind of a flush of money, and we've done some of these large shooting range projects. The first one was in Velva, and these are kind of all inclusive ones. And we built one in Velva. We built one in Watford City. Um, we're building one Hankinson currently, and we've also did a couple large clubhouse projects. One right now is going on in Dickinson and these and well, we had uh, did one in Williston a few years ago too.
Casey: That was a nice one.
Marty: Yep. And these are projects that a lot of them, you know, surpass $1 million. These are big projects. And so depending on, you know, what, they're all, uh, incorporated into it, like Velva and Watford City, for example, have indoor archery, they have trapshooting, they have rifle ranges, you know, so they're kind of an all inclusive type club, you know, and one of the, uh, so we have interest in placing these as the funds, uh, are there, you know, so sometimes we have more money than others. So but we've done a kind of done a handful of these, and we'd like to continue as long as we can site them. That's one of the kind of the bigger problems on that.
Cayla: And they have to be open to the public.
Marty: They do. If you're going to take federal funds, they have to be open to the public. It doesn't necessarily have to be free. And, you know, for example, you go to a trap club, you guys got a trap club in Turtle Lake. I mean, they don't let you shoot there for free, but they let anybody shoot there. And so, um.
Casey: They gotta cover their costs.
Marty: Absolutely. There's a cost. And so they're non-profits. So in order to qualify for these grants, the clubs have to be they have to be nonprofit. They have to be in good standing with the state, and they have to be open for the public. And so, for example, a lot of trap clubs, um, you know, they do sell memberships and membership can't be required. But a lot of times if you shoot there a lot, you're going to buy a membership. And so maybe they charge, um, a member $8 for around a trap, and they charge a nonmember $10 for trap. So it just can't be punitive. You couldn't charge a member five bucks and $100 for a nonmember that wouldn't fly. But but there is, you know, certainly can charge for that.
Casey: Hmm yeah.
Cayla: Was there like a big wave. How did we get the ones on WMAs that we have now. Was there like one big flush or is it kind of like.
Casey: That's a little different the WMA stuff. So the the interesting part is I think Pittman Robinson and everybody that deals with Pittman Robinson dollars realized that a lot of those dollars were coming from not necessarily hunters but target shooters.
Marty: Recreational shooters.
Casey: Yeah. And so that that's where a lot of this started to get kind of carved off, which as hunters go, it's like, well, we should we should all be practicing anyway. So it works out well. And that's one of the reasons why we try to do a lot of the rifle ranges that we have on some of our WMAs. Of course, we own that property already, so that makes it a little easier for siting and and getting it built. But but it also causes some problems because we're taking a chunk of the WMA out of wildlife production essentially.
Marty: Yeah. You got to find the right place where you're utilizing land that probably isn't great wildlife management producing areas, because that's that's why we have wildlife management areas. That's the number one goal. And of course, you know, the ones that we do manage, with the exception of the new one we'll talk about, are kind of along the Missouri River corridor, because we manage a lot of land that we manage for the Corps of Engineers. And so we have those places there, and those were all built prior to my time taking over the shooting range grants. And, uh, so there, you know, that's, uh, you know, kind of a nice little, uh, if you live along the Missouri River, there are nice little you know, ranges to have to, to utilize to shoot. And you're right about, you know, recreational shooters, at one time, dove hunters were the largest consumer of ammunition in the US. And that's changed. Now it's recreational shooters. So, um, you know, and it's probably only fair that they get places to shoot. You know, they're not out, a lot of them are not out there hunting. Now, a lot of the people that do recreationally shoot in North Dakota are also hunters, you know. But, you know, how do you split that up? But, you know, the guys that are down there, you know, shooting 100 rounds of nine millimeter, .223 are probably not utilizing that for hunting. They're just recreationally shooting.
Casey: They've put more into PR in a year than I do. Probably.
Marty: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Cayla: Then the guy that shoots once and says, I'm good, I'm good on November 1st or whatever.
Marty: Yeah, yeah, I went deer hunting. I took out my dear rifle and I shot three times at 100 yards. Still on. You know.
Casey: So then one day, 1 or 2, you know, one time, a deer and it's like, oh, that's it for the year.
Marty: So yeah, I use a lot of shotgun ammo. But yeah, rifle ammo was not a big expenditure for me, so but so that's uh, but you know, that's kind of our goal to have it. And it's important to have these places, you know, people are going to shoot regardless, you know, so we can have, you know, uh, nice, safe places for people to shoot. You know, that's pretty important.
Casey: Unfortunately, some people get messy. And so if you give them a spot to go, a lot of times the mess is in one spot. Yeah. It's a little easier to deal with if you don't give them a spot to go. Then they start going all over the place and shooting it. You know, things like TVs out in the open spot, which are not.
Marty: And we've had those problems before, you know, at that some of our WMA ranges is particularly one on the McLean bottoms. We pretty much that guy got that kind of cleaned up and stopped just through, you know, presence and dumpsters and stuff down there. But it's kind of interesting. You know, I had been trying to site a range over in Jamestown and uh, one of the, uh, one of the local landowners was, you know, against it. And usually there's some NIMBYism, you know, not in my backyard when you're trying to site one of these things. And his rationale is he didn't want them shooting there because they were already there shooting and shooting up his fence posts. It's like, well, that's because they don't have a place to shoot. I'm not condoning their activity, but if you gave them a they're already shooting there, so you've already got that kind of going on in your backyard. So let's give them a safe place to shoot that. They're not damaging property. You know, you've already got the problem. Here's the solution. You know.
Casey: And a lot of and a lot of times it does take care of it. Yeah. You know and kind of concentrates where people go. But so, you know, like you said, Marty, we have a lot of or a few of these on our wildlife management areas along the Missouri River corridor. And and we've gotten to the point now where we've kind of decided if there's going to be another one on a wildlife management area, it's going to be a piece of property that we purchased or got donated to us for that purpose. And that's kind of what we're looking at in Hankinson that we kind of did.
Marty: Yeah. And this is this has been going on for years. And uh, and, you know, I originally was contacted by a gentleman over there in March of 2018. You know.
Casey: I was going to say, I think I started working on it when I was assistant chief. So that's getting to be three jobs ago.
Marty: Things, things take a while sometimes. And, and of course, uh, you know, so he contacted me and I said, you know, this is something we can do, but we got a couple things on the docket ahead, and it's kind of nice to have these things lined up because they if you're ready to go, it's going to be a minimum of two years, you know, from the time you start till you get it built. And this one of course, is stretched out longer than that. But we had some other projects in front of them. And so, you know, we went up and, you know, looked at locations and, uh, he, he had 3 or 4 locations he showed me, and two of them were going to be terrible just because of access. You know, it's a prairie trail. It's like, well, you can get here four months out of the year, but it's either going to be snow or mud. But we found this. And of course, this gentleman just thought it was all ours. It was state land. Well, it was state school land. And, uh, you know, right on the highway, uh, you know, a couple miles west of Hankinson, great access. And, uh, so, you know, I talked to Jeb and, and we called over to, uh, Mike human at the state Land Department and inquired about this partial and and you and I went up there and looked at it and ended up, you know, ended up, uh, this State Land Department had kind of a checkered past trying to rent it out. Sometimes they get it rented out, sometimes they wouldn't. They weren't making money on it, so they agreed to sell it to us.
Casey: Well, it was interesting because it was about, I think five years. Well, maybe not quite even that long. 3 or 4 years before this, they had asked us if we wanted to buy it. Because they weren't making any money on it. And we were like, well, it's it's not going to change really, if we managed it versus they managed it. So at that point we were like, well, to spend sportsmen's dollars to get this piece and nothing's going to change on. It really didn't make a lot of sense until this opportunity came along and went, all right, well, these recreational shooters and and hunters that need a place to go now, it might be worth it for us to purchase it.
Marty: Because it's marginal wildlife land. You know, so it was you know, we're not we're just got everything to gain by placing a shooting range there. And so, um, so and they, uh, you know, they wanted an all inclusive, uh, you know, range like we built in other places, too. And so we have kind of a unique situation here, kind of a hybrid system. And, uh, you know, if we bought all the land just due to various state regulations, we couldn't put buildings on it and stuff. And so we have that chunk for a rifle range, which is going to take up the largest footprint. You know, the area, you know, we have 25, 85 100. 200 yard range is out there. The club the Richland County Wildlife Club, bought, I don't know, ten acres next to it on some private land. And then they're going to put a at some point they're going to put a building. But right now they've got sidewalks, trap houses, skeet houses, archery range. So the rest of that complex will be over there in club property. So it's all conjoined. You know it's right next together but separate driveways and stuff. So it's it is.
Casey: Walking distance between.
Marty: Absolutely. And one, you know, kind of one complex. So ours is uh, as we speak should be done. You know, it was supposed to be wrapped up last week and, uh, you know, it took a little longer. We had some, uh, had to have some extensions because of weather and wet ground and a variety of things that always pop up with construction, uh, projects. But we're kind of at the end now. And, uh, the Hankinson portion should be they've got to the end of the year to finish theirs, you know. So and there'll be more to come there at some point they're going to need to clubhouse.
Casey: So and the interesting part with this one is, is of course now they're a partner to help us manage that rifle range because a lot of the ones on our WMAs were doing.
Cayla: Yeah, I was gonna say, who replaces the mats or the.
Casey: Yeah, the targets and and that kind of thing. So that.
Marty: Wildlife section does.
Cayla: Okay.
Casey: Yeah. So our guys are out running around um, maintaining those ranges in a lot of cases on our wildlife management areas. This one is probably going to fall a little more on that club to help us maintain it. We may get them the materials and things, but that'll be a unique partnership.
Marty: Yep. And we'll have to come up with a management agreement with that. And you know what, uh, you know what you're going to do? And I mean, is there going to be any reimbursement or cost share on that. So and pretty important to that one because it's known. Hankinson. Well, our closest office is Jamestown.
Casey: Yeah, I know.
Marty: You know, you got, I don't know what an hour and a half run down there or more?
Casey: Or at least.
Marty: Two hours probably. And uh, here, you know, we've got an office in Bismarck and they can run down to the either the Mandan side or Bismarck side or Wilton. So it's a little more convenient for us to take care of it. But. Yeah. And some of that stuff, I mean, we, you know, we certainly, you know, know our range and we contract a lot of that out whether it's, you know, garbage collection or porta potties. You know, we're not doing that ourselves, right? We're paying somebody else to maintain that for us. So. But you're right. Backstops, mowing that kind of stuff. You know, there's maintenance issues. If you want something, you got to take care of it.
Casey: Yeah. And interestingly enough, since we're talking about ranges, I'll give a shout out to, uh, Rainbow Energy. Um, a lot of the backstops that we use are actually old conveyor belt material from the power plant.
Cayla: Mhm.
Casey: Rainbow.
Cayla: Like the rubber.
Casey: Yep. Rainbow Energy has donated, uh, um, to us a couple of different times. And so, um, I think we're on we're on a list if they have to replace those belts because they have to replace them every so often, and then they're actually just, you know, trying to get rid of them.
Marty: Expendable item. And we need to replace them all the time.
Casey: And they work awesome for a backstop. Yeah.
Cayla: They get yeah. They have so many staples on them. I can't get my stapler in.
Marty: They they take a lot of bullets though.
Casey: Yeah they do.
Cayla: Yeah.
Marty: So we, you know, we'll have to do that at the Hankinson range and of course, was probably, you know, like you overlook things at times. And of course, the engineering plan they've got, you know, wood posts and plywood back, you know, that's not going to last. So at some point, you know, change it. And you know, we've, you know, over the years like anything I mean you do have some damage and some of it's intentional. And you know, we used to have wood post on McLean bottoms. And of course they get, you know, they get shot off. And so we've replaced the posts with like I don't think they call it AR 500 steel, you know. And it's at a 90 degree weld. So if someone shoots it, the bullets glance off into the backstop. And so we've found ways to try extend the life of some of this stuff. But it's funny though, when I get calls all the time, you know, a couple, you know, a couple times a year that people say, you know, the backstops are shot. And, uh, regardless, I'll call, you know, the wildlife guy used to be Levi. He said, yep, they already know about it. He said, yeah, we're scheduled to go out there on Wednesday, you know, and so they stay on top of it pretty well. So when I call them, they've already known about it.
Casey: So I mean these these places get used man. You think like oh I'm gonna a lot of times I'll try to go like on a Wednesday or something. Right. Because that I don't, I don't target shoot very much but more just to sight in the rifle or whatever. And it's like I go down there on a Wednesday at like 3:00. Take some time off from work to do it. Figuring miss people, dang thing will be full, you know, like what the heck and it's like two months from deer season. You try to go there a week before deer season. You're gonna be waiting in line.
Marty: Or you can. It doesn't matter the time of day either. If it's daylight, there's someone there. And a number of years ago I bought a I bought a new rifle, I bought a 280 Ackley. I was going up caribou hunting and I had to break the barrel in. So I was there a succession of mornings, you know, because I'd shoot, clean, shoot, clean, shoot clean. And, you know, I'd get there, you know, this is, you know, uh, end of July, early part of August. And I was there the minute the sun came up. I was never the first person there. I never I'd be there at six in the morning. And there's three other rigs there already, and it does get used. I mean, and I've been pheasant hunting down there and, you know, I'm walking back to the truck and it's quitting time and you can, you know, you drive by, there's people still packing up and it's dark. You know, they are they're open daylight hours, you know.
Cayla: So I was gonna say just. Yeah. Anytime you're like, recreating in the bottoms. Even in the summer, you can hear either the mandan or the. Yeah. It's like, jeez, someone.
Marty: Yeah. It'd be really interesting to know how many rounds are expended at that place, you know, on a day or a year or anything like that.
Cayla: You could probably put they've got to have like a AI thing that just records the sound and then counts them.
Casey: Right. Yeah. I suppose you could probably.
Marty: That's beyond my technological expertise for certain.
Cayla: You went to school to be an engineer?
Marty: Yeah. No, I never got there.
Casey: Yeah. He started to be an engineer.
Marty: I thought about it. That was what it, you know, and it washed out. I ended up in biology, so.
Casey: Yeah. So. So where what do we have any new ones? Kind of plan Hankinson's kind of finishing up here.
Marty: Um, you know, we don't.
Casey: Um, any areas of the state that that could use one that we're kind of looking.
Marty: So absolutely we were we had one, um, one kind of fell through. We had one planned out in Medora and, uh, just through different circumstances and siting projects or siting problems. Uh, they ended up, you know, we did put some time into that. And, and they also had some expenses on engineers, and they had the thing designed and they, they had a real tough time citing it. And they just kind of walked away from the project. So right now we don't, uh, we have uh, and we're still kind of waiting to see if we're going to have excess funds right now anyway. But we're always looking for places. And yeah, siting is a problem in the eastern half of the state is where we have the largest population and the probably the biggest lack of actual public shooting ranges. And citing it's always a problem. And, you know, whether you're, you know, you get around that Fargo area, Grand Forks area, uh, high value cropland and then little subdivisions all over the place, you know, so to find a place that's away from how, you know, we want to be good neighbors. We know we're not going to set a shooting range up next to someone's house. You know, I mean, um, we'd like to, you know, and certainly down range, we don't want anything, you know, for several miles down range. And these are all, you know, encased with berm, sidewalls, back walls. But, you know, bullets can escape. And that's part of the some of the rules we have. And if you read the signs, which no one does if you go up there.
Cayla: That’s because they’re so long. Yeah.
Marty: A lot of rules.
Casey: There's so many words.
Cayla: Yeah.
Marty: And, uh, we don't let people. You're not supposed to shoot at ground targets, you know, don't throw a can on the ground. Shoot at it. Because what happens is. Yeah, the bullet ricochets up a wall. Now, these berms are 12ft tall, but, you know, the target stands are right against the berm. So if you go through the target, it goes on the back berm. Well, if you've got 100 yard range and you're shooting at a target 25 yards, that bullet can easily go over that. And that's the last thing we want is, you know, accident injury or a range getting shut down. That's a real possibility, you know. So, um, but anyway, um, you know, so just in case something like that happens, you know, you want to find a spot that doesn't have, you know, you know, anything down range, it's going to be in danger. Um, it'd be nice to be at least a mile away or half mile or a mile away from someone just for noise complaints. Because when you cite this, anybody who has property next to it is going to be opposed to it. Yeah. You know, it's just I've never seen it. I've never seen opposition or they're not be opposition to these. And here's an interesting, you know, uh, when we the first one we did in Velva, um, there's a gentleman that lived across the highway. It's on 52 you’ve been by it and been to it, probably advisory board meeting and, um, person across the highway was opposed to it. And, uh, and of course, there's a highway right there and railroad tracks, and I don't know how many trains a day go across that.
Casey: There's a few.
Marty: And and the highway and, you know, their biggest issue is noise complaint. Well, the Velva wildlife club guys were smart enough that they took, uh, they took decibel readings and they had someone down the range shooting a shotgun. And then they stood up on the highway, and the trains and the trucks going by were, you know, considerably louder, you know. So it kind of was, okay, this is not a valid argument, you know, you just don't want it here. So but there's, you know, if you're going to, you know, try to site one. It's there's certainly some issues. And that's probably our biggest thing if we can get a if we can get a site picked out and uh, get it through, uh, you know, zoning and everything. And then when we do these new ones, part of the reason it takes so long is any new, if an existing range, they can apply for funds and not a problem if it's a new range. We have to do an environmental assessment. And that's that's a year long process in itself. And so, you know, you got to get engineers involved and public comment period. And and have meetings and stuff. So it is pretty lengthy. And if you get uh, if you can get through all that and, you know, the zoning changes, then the rest of it isn't too hard to do. But that's, that's the biggest hurdle that we have. So.
Casey: Well, it takes a lot of local support. Right. So if somebody thinks they're going to hey, we're just going to contact the game and fish. There's ten of us. We want to build a range. You got a lot of work to do because like, you're going to have to get the county commission on board. You're going to have to get, you know, maybe there's other sub subdivisional things, extra territorial takings or whatever they call them, uh, along cities. You know, I think like, Fargo is pretty big. You know, when you look at that outside of Fargo.
Marty: Extraterritorial zoning.
Casey: You know, and so you're going to have to deal with all that stuff and get it through that before you can even start breaking ground. And so you got to have a lot of local support.
Marty: So and you certainly need that too, because, you know, if you go to a meeting and only three people show up who are opposed and no one comes in favor of it, yeah, you're going to have a real tough hill to climb, you know, so it's we can handle the paperwork and stuff. But yeah, you got to have someone on the ground that wants it. And like anything else and, you know, in your world dealing with politics, you realize a lot of these decisions are made behind closed doors.
Casey: Yeah. You gotta talk to people, man. Yeah.
Marty: You know. So Also get kind of got to get everything and both ways, you know, shutting something down or getting things to proceed. You know, I've been to these meetings before and I just had a real good feeling that, you know, whether it's a commissioner or zoning board, they knew what they're you know, they knew what was going to happen before it even got into that room. So.
Casey: Well, and I think, too, you know, you say closed doors, but really it's conversation. It's longer conversations than you can have in the meeting setting with everything going on. And so it it takes that to get the full understanding of what's going on sometimes.
Marty: You win some you lose some. And, uh, you know, we've been trying to they've been trying to site one in Jamestown since before I came here. And I don't know how many locations they've went through. And and honestly, right now it's and unless they come forward with a really good location, we probably aren't going to invest a lot of time into it. It's almost got one locked down because, you know, we're just at that point. But, uh, but for the most part, we've, uh, you know, had trouble there. And the, you know, one in Medora got shut down. But, you know, we ran, you know, we're on probably the fifth big project and gotten them done.
Casey: Yeah, if you're interested in one of these, some of these are are beautiful facilities. Like we just had the advisory board meeting up at the one at Watford City that is indoor archery and trapshooting out back and I mean well and I think they've got outdoor archery kind of stuff in the summertime. I mean, it's a heck of a facility. And then the one in Williston, I mean, that's a that's a fantastic one too. And so.
Marty: Yeah, and that's, you know, I mean, it just it, you know, just for our way of life and, you know, that's kind of what, you know, this whole department is and having those facilities are important and some of these things too, you know, that's kind of come around the the high school, although we're not involved with the North Dakota high school trap shooting other than, you know, we offer them some financial assistance. I mean, what a just a great way to get, you know, kids out there shooting and and hunting. And even if they don't ever hunt, I mean, they're still contributing to wildlife management by doing this. And, you know, I've got, uh, you know, my kids are all grown up now, but before there was even the high school trapshooting up in Grand Forks, we had park Board Trapshooting and they've got kind of, you know, it's for a large city. Um, you know, they're park they're park board was heavily involved in, you know, outdoor activities. That was probably because of their director who's retired now was John Staley. And, you know, bird dog trainer, hunter and very important. And they sponsored things like what other big city sponsors, things like Trapshooting. So my kid did that. And of course, you know, he and he did that because my dad was a my dad was a very avid trap shooter. And he'd been my kid was shooting trap with his grandpa. The gun was longer than he was. He could barely hold it up. But, you know, one of his friends, his came from a non-hunting family. Uh, you know, I started trapshooting with me, and my kid is just an avid waterfowl hunter now, you know, so there's other things that people don't even realize that happen. These trap clubs. Because you go to the trap club. What are you talking about? We're not talking about, uh, you know, probably the baseball game. You're probably talking about hunting or bird dogs or, you know, exposes people that kind of stuff. And yeah, it's I've just seen it, you know, convert people into hunters. So.
Cayla: Yeah, I feel like you've seen these ranges, these little ranges like pick up or need more facilities as the high school teams have, have kind of taken off. They have they need a place to shoot. So. Yep.
Marty: And I've got a pot of money for that too. And so you know, not to get too far in the weeds in it. But you know, I have different pots of money for different purposes. And I have X amount of money just for shooting range grants. And then a number of years ago, 3 or 4 sessions ago, it kind of started out where it was one of those bills that kind of started out as a gun safety program, but we already have hunter safety and it turned into shooting activity. So I got a another chunk of money, which is actually larger than the other one. And it's for. So anytime it's, you know, something to do with youth. Like, you know, if they do, if they host, uh, you know, high school trapshooting there, I pull all that pot of money, you know, because there's more of it there and it's kind of delegated for that. So.
Casey: Yeah, yeah. And it's I mean, those things are if if they don't become hunters, they definitely become a safe person around firearms, you know, which is so important, I think these days, like, just to know what to do with a firearm, how to handle a firearm. There's lots of adults and coaches there that are helping these kids get along with firearms and learn how to utilize them and use them safely.
Marty: And so and even if they're not hunters, they're probably still supporters. Right. Exactly. And that's that's important to have.
Casey: Yeah.
Cayla: And they're shooting a lot of shotgun shells.
Casey: And they're shooting a lot of shotgun shells.
Marty: Shoot a lot of shotgun shells.
Casey: Oh man. Are they ever.
Marty: So and they're you know, it's you know, they've turned out some very good shooters. Oh yeah.
Casey: Yeah they have the state shoot is in Horace. Yeah.
Marty: At the shooting park.
Casey: So far it's been in Horace. It's getting to the point where it's big enough that they may have to either split it into a couple days or do something else, but.
Marty: And that's, you know, it's large enough too it's been hard for them to find a place large enough to host it in one day and stuff. And we have had, uh, you know, over the past few years both at Minot and Bismarck, we have, you know, helped them with some infrastructure needs and put new houses in to try and increase their capacity. And that's where the the actual North Dakota state, uh, trap shoots either held Minot or Bismarck every other year. They rotate it around. So yeah.
Casey: Yeah. So we've if anybody is interested in kind of cranking one of these up in their area, a shooting range, just give us a call.
Marty: Absolutely. And uh, you know.
Casey: Start talking about it.
Marty: If you go to our website and go to our education grants, you know, there'll be links there and contact information. Uh, and if you just have a, you know, question, you know, give me a call and, uh, we'll talk you through it. So, you know, like, we're already done with this year for grants. Um, you know, it's, you know, our deadline has already passed, but particularly if you're in a community that has no shooting facility and you're looking for one of these larger clubs. You know, it's going to be a few years down the road. But I got a, you know, I got a slot to get somebody in, you know, funding dependent always. But we have to start these steps, you know, kind of ahead of time because it does take so long.
Casey: So that and I think, you know, especially if you have a piece of property that's available, um, that's that's obviously a first good start. You know, if we don't if there isn't a piece of property available and it's then it's just kind of a dream in the air. And we've had a couple groups that are struggling to find a place. Yeah. Um, I know that. And so yeah, but we can surely start poking the bear and seeing if there's a way we can help you, too.
Marty: And that's, you know, other than this one where we've got it on our own wildlife management areas, we can put them on there, but we can't use these funds to buy property. Right. You know, so that's if you're a club, you're going to have to buy the property. And you also don't have to buy it. You either have to have a you can have a long term lease on it. A lot of these, you know, are in a small town. The city owns some land and they give them a 99 year lease And we don't actually care if you own it, but you have to have at lease long enough to protect our investment. You know, if we give you $50,000 to buy a, you know, put up a building or something, well, we don't want someone else owning that in five years. You know, you're going to have to have at lease long enough to do that. So that's also an option for people. You don't actually have to buy the land. And that's, um, probably a real big hurdle. I mean, land prices are just through the roof. And to buy, you know, a, you know, piece of property large enough to do this or find somebody willing to sell it or even parcel off a piece, you know, it's, you know, it's kind of tough, you know.
Casey: And if there's something suitable for just a range, like just a rifle range, outdoor rifle range, the department may be able to help with acquiring that piece of property and then it would be on ours. But we we don't really take pieces out of our existing WMAs anymore. And so that's something to consider. Um, but if you're not looking for the clubhouse and that kind of thing, and your area just needs like a rifle range and you know of an opportunity. That'd be something we'd be interested in looking at. To worst we can say is no.
Marty: Yeah, tell us and we can look at it. And, you know, like anything, you know, we're you know, we're a small agency and we're not everywhere. You know, we don't know every parcel of land out there. And so if you have an idea, you know, run it by us. That's, you know. Yep.
Cayla: All right.
Casey: That's pretty good. Anything else?
Cayla: Anything else?
Marty: No.
Casey: All right. Sounds good. Thanks for being on Marty.
Marty: No, well, glad to be here.
Cayla: We'll get into the department droppings. So. Deer Muzzleloader season opens November 28th. Is that two weeks? I should know this.
Casey: That's going to be the Friday of after Thanksgiving. So Friday at noon
Cayla: No, I mean, how long is the season?
Marty: Oh, 16, 16.5 days
Casey: I was like, what is she getting at here?
Cayla: I know it's November 28th.
Marty: Ask the right question.
Casey: Same as rifle season.
Cayla: I said, how long is the season?
Marty: I thought you said. How long til the season?
Casey: All right, well, now that we've established that Thanksgiving is the 27th, you can get outside and there's looks like the weather's going to be pretty decent. You know there's opportunities out there for upland game pheasants and things and maybe even some waterfowl around. Still if things hold out the way it's looking.
Cayla: And then yeah I guess we don't know when ice season will start. But if you're out hunting or getting on some early ice action, uh, just be careful. Check everything. Um, yeah. You need to be mindful of, like, things freezing over, dogs going out there. All those things.
Casey: Had my dog fall through the ice this weekend.
Cayla: Ooh.
Casey: I thought I was gonna have to break ice, but he got back up.
Cayla: Nice.
Casey: So. All right, now that we've dropped the droppings, you can get off the pot and get outdoors.
(Outro music)