In this episode of NDO Podcast, we’re overlooking the Pembina Gorge and visiting with Brian Prince, wildlife resource management supervisor, about the diversity of landscapes in his district – from prairies to aspen forests to bur oak river bottoms – some of his biggest “opportunities to work hard” and using time in the skid steer for therapy.
Cayla: Welcome to episode 108 of the NDO podcast. On this episode, we have Brian Prince with us. So been on once before. We're still making our tour through the wildlife districts, so we're up in district one today. We were, we had a dedication earlier today. And then we got to check out the gorge and some other WMAs up this way. So yeah, we'll just talk about Brian's district and yeah, we'll see where it goes. And we're outside and Cayla forgot along the list of Cayla's things that she forgets. I forgot our little battery pack. So we're using the power from the truck. So if it sounds like there's a truck.
Casey: If you hear a buzz in the background and I'm not facing looking at the gorge because I'd lose track of what I'm doing.
Cayla: So yeah, you'd be.
Casey: Pembina Gorge here in the background here.
Brian: Yep, yep.
Cayla: All right. Well, yeah, you've been on before, Brian, but just a refresher, I guess, of a little bit of your background and then what you do now.
Brian: Sure, sure. Like I said, my name is Brian Prince. I'm the district one wildlife resource management supervisor based out of Devils Lake, North Dakota, responsible for 11 counties in northeast North Dakota. I'm responsible for land management primarily, but we have other duties like surveys and depredation when that arises in the wintertime and just the plethora of other things that pop up in a district, landowner calls, sportsmen calls. You know, where should I hunt ducks? Where should I, you know, where should I chase this? Where are the elk, where are the moose? So just kind of kind of jack of all trades for the northeast district. My counties include Bottineau, Rolette, Towner, Cavalier, Pembina, Walsh, Grand Forks, Ramsey, Benson and Pierce. Is that 11, Casey?
Casey: Ten, I think.
Brian: Ten.
Cayla: I was going to say it was brave to list of all we get the idea.
Brian: Nelson, I forgot. Nelson.
Casey: Yep. There you go.
Brian: Yep. Nelson County as well.
Casey: I was like that was ten. I was doing I was counting on my fingers.
Brian: Glad you had the tally going there. Yeah. And within those counties there's 66 wildlife management areas that were responsible for totaling 40,366 acres.
Casey: With a staff of.
Brian: The district in the resource section, we have three full-time people.
Casey: And that's just as of recent. You had two until two years ago.
Brian: Yes, exactly. And thank you guys. In the Bismarck office for that.
Casey: So we had to figure that out. That was a trick.
Brian: That was that was huge. Huge for us. So we've been able to do kind of reevaluate what we have done in the past and where we always wanted to go with different projects and things like that. So some, some of those dreams are starting to become reality. So that's, that's huge for the district. So, and we, we used to have one PLI biologist and now we have two as well. That district has been split. So those folks also, you know, can come into the fold too when, when certain things need to be done, prescribed burning and things like that. So yeah, I mean, we, I feel like we're, we're pretty well equipped now. And of course, we run 1 or 2 seasonal employees. We one this last year, probably going to bump that up to two this, this coming summer. So and those folks are huge too. I mean, that that's when we do the lion's share of our WMA work. So to have capable and competent people helping us out with, that's exactly what we need. So that's been good too. And then of course, we're, we're prepping those folks for full-time employment, hopefully down the road with the, with our department as well.
Casey: So yeah, and your district is pretty diverse. I mean, when you look at some of the other districts, like you go from the Red River Valley to what we're in now, the gorge, which is one of our main native deciduous forests in the state, pretty much. That's in big blocks into the prairie pothole region and I mean, your landscape is pretty diverse.
Brian: It is, it is. And that that diversity is why I love what I'm doing so much because it's not the same thing every day. And, and you know, there's, there's not a lot of other districts out there that get to manage the habitat types that, that we get to because they're just not found in a prairie state in other districts so.
Casey: But with that comes everything from black bears to elk to ducks and you name it.
Brian: Yeah, exactly. Some of those, some of those species are doing really well and almost too well in some places. But yeah, no, it's been a great career and, and love where I'm at. So it's fun working here.
Casey: So maybe you want to talk about some individual WMAs like.
Brian: Sure.
Casey: The one we were just at Cayla mentioned this morning. That's a brand new one.
Brian: The Bosh.
Casey: Bosh tract, the family wanted to turn their property into a WMA and so we made that happen and had a dedication with the family this morning. So that was cool.
Brian: That was great.
Casey: That was in an area that we don't have a lot of WMAs kind of a devoid spot of public land or, or even much habitat, but.
Brian: Right, right. It's kind of.
Casey: A duck production and things like that.
Brian: Kind of a, an island of grass in that country for, for one reason or another. It's been a popular, you know, area for CRP and things like that through the in the recent past. So yeah, it was it was in the PLOTS program for quite a few years. And then there was a changing of hands. The property went to the daughter and they struggled as I understand, to kind of keep up with it, you know, the weed control, it's, it's 540 acres. So it's, you know, it's a huge undertaking for you know, someone who you know, is trying to tackle that all by themselves. So Dennis reached out to Bill Haase in Bismarck and kind of got that ball rolling and several partners stepped in and came to fruition. So it doesn't always happen that way, but yeah, we've got a 540-acre addition to the wildlife management area system now about six miles east of Lawton, North Dakota.
Casey: And so now everybody's got to look that up. Well, well, not everybody.
Brian: A nice piece. Yeah.
Casey: Lawton. Yeah. I mean Lawton before. Yeah, LAWTON.
Brian: Yeah, yeah.
Cayla: You guys have probably been to tons of those by now, but I guess that was my first. So it was cool to see how thankful they were. Like they were the ones like, I don't know, appreciative of it. Like just really proud of the legacy. And then Casey, your point, which I'm sure you say it most of them, but like just, yeah, if even if you just pass it down to your family member, you don't know what that family member is going to do the next generation. So like the fact that it's a WMA guarantees that like, yeah, your grandkids and their kids are all have equal access to it, I guess.
Casey: Come back and see the.
Cayla: That part was cool.
Casey: See the connection to the land that their family had. Yeah. Where that was.
Cayla: We could almost do a whole episode on acquisitions. Yeah.
Casey: Right. Yeah. And then we've been poking around the Pembina Hills and the gorge maybe, I don't know. So that the stuff that we were just at, at the Bosh tract, that's going to be more of a prairie management, wetland management type of stuff. There's a little shrubland in there, but. Yep.
Brian: Yep. I think one quarter probably will be managed more for deer just because of that woody habitat component out there and how it's been managed in the past. And then the, the other two parcels that are, are kind of the, the middle and the, the south lying property will be managed more specifically for, for waterfowl. There's nice wetland component out there and, and grass. So we'll manage it that way. And the tract is in the WRP program, the Wetland Reserve Program for another 19 or 20 years. So we'll, we'll have to abide by, by that that agreement that was taken before we purchased the property, which is no problem. I mean, we've got several tracts that that are already in that program and we've got a great working relationship with NRCS too, in the, in the county.
Casey: And realistically, the wetland reserve program's intent is to kind of do a lot of the stuff that we want to do anyway, on a piece. And so yeah.
Brian: We want it in grass. We want it
Casey: Wetlands intact and things like that. So yeah.
Brian: Managed for wildlife species. So yeah, yeah, definitely. That's why it's pretty easy to work with those folks.
Casey: So maybe hit us up a little bit about the difference between managing something like that and then managing something like what we're sitting in here in the gorge, the aspen, you know.
Brian: Sure.
Casey: You need more big boy equipment up here? It seems like.
Brian: You do, yeah, and it depends on where you're at in the Pembina Gorge too, you know, and what kind of habitat components are on the ground. But yeah, the Bosh tract, you know, will probably work with NRCs to do some rotational haying out there to keep reinvigorating the grasses that are already there. If we can, you know, if we can work with them and it's conducive for us to do prescribed burning is always the best tool to use. But not always, especially with all that grass in that country. It doesn't always work out that way. So but yeah, there needs to be some periodic management to those tracts or, or the quality of the habitat diminishes. So those are the types of things you do in on a, on a grassland type situation. But if you move up into like the Pembina Gorge or Jay Wessels or the Turtle Mountains, you're dealing with a whole different, whole different habitat type in that forested environment. Where we're sitting now, the Pembina Gorge, lots of oak and ash which are long lived tree species. There really aren’t a lot of management to do in that situation. But in those areas, like Jay Wessels and the Pembina Hills some of our Turtle Mountain WMAs, most of them actually, you know, we’re actively managing the Aspen component of those wildlife management areas just to just because those Aspen stands are shorter, a lot shorter lived. And they do require periodic maintenance. So historically it was, it was done by fire, but of course, you know, in the situations we have now with land ownership and, and private property and things like that. Just the risk involved is, you know, pretty, pretty great. So we look at other tools and techniques in order to manage that component of the forest. So and what that falls down into is the mechanical removal, removal of, of those aspen. And what was once done with chainsaws or bulldozers with shear blades is now done with larger track skid steers and forestry heads. And so, we'll choose an area that's overage, decadent, you know, it's on its way out. And then in the fall, we want to do as much of the work as we can when the trees are dormant. You can do Aspen management any time of the year, but your best results come if it's during dormancy. So we'll go in, you know, mid-to-late August in most years, depending on, on the situation and clear the understory, and then we wait till October. Early October, mid-October, depending on when the leaves come down. And then we start the tree removal, the aspen removal out of out of those stands. And so, once we, once we complete that we just walk away, let the, the Aspen component regenerate itself. And it's basically just like starting that, that component of the, the forest all over again. If there's any oak or ash or non-target tree species, you know, that won't hinder the regeneration. We just leave that stand in those in those managed areas. So yeah, it's, it's quite a bit different, but the diversity between the prairie environments and the in the forest environments is it's a nice change of pace too, you know, you're not doing the same thing all the time.
Casey: So yeah. And for those people that have never seen that, like a lot of people think like, oh, you're cutting down the big trees, like you're clearing the land and it's like in a couple years, I would, I would recommend anybody go look at some of these areas that have been done. A couple of years later, they're so thick with aspens, you can't even walk through them.
Brian: Right.
Casey: And they're kind of wild how they come back. But that young growth Aspen is magical for deer, elk, ruffed grouse.
Brian: Ruffed grouse, turkeys.
Casey: Turkeys. Yeah.
Cayla: Brian said it's a good activity if you're feeling frustrated.
Casey: Yeah.
Brian: Yes, yes. If you've got any angst in life, it's
Casey: Coming around to a forestry head.
Brian: It's a wonderful counselor.
Casey: It's a wonderful counselor. Yeah.
Cayla: It was cool when you were showing us like the how you used OnX, like map out which areas you wanted to to clear cut the aspen. And then you can see where yeah, other employees have like picked away at it or whatever. Did you just have like the tracking on when you're in the dozer?
Brian: Exactly.
Cayla: Okay.
Brian: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It’s really interesting. Technology. And kudos to onX for the product they put out. They'll give them a plug too, but yeah. Yeah, like I was saying, we were we choose areas based on the Aspen component when we're doing Aspen management. And so, I can be sitting at my desk at work, or I can be at home in the evening. It really doesn't matter. And I can, I can digitize that, that boundary. And then I can share my login information with one of the guys at the office, whoever's, whoever's going to be out there.
Cayla: Whoever's most frustrated.
Brian: Yeah, whoever's whoever needs therapy that day.
Casey: Time in the forestry machine.
Brian: Exactly. And, and they can, they can bring up my account and like you said, hit the, hit the tracking button when they're on site and I could be sitting at home that night and. Oh yeah, they did quite a bit done, you know, and then I know where to start tomorrow or.
Cayla: Yeah.
Brian: Whoever whoever's up there next. So yeah, it's some really, really cool technology.
Cayla: How would you guys have used to have to do that?
Casey: Well, there have probably been. Well, before computers, you'd have gone out and flagged areas. Probably you would. You stayed within areas.
Brian: Yep. Put orange flagging on the boundary.
Casey: Orange paint or whatever.
Brian: Yeah.
Casey: And then Yeah. Or we would do you know, GIS or hand drawing a map. Yep. Hope they stay in. Because the biggest thing is you're just trying to create a mosaic of areas. So there's old growth, new growth, middle growth, all that kind of stuff. So.
Brian: Right. Right. Yeah. And back in the day, you know, we used to make a checkerboard two and a half acre blocks in a checkerboard pattern. So you'd go in the first year and clear five of those two and a half acre blocks kind of in an X, and then you'd wait ten years, identify that area again, and then you'd go clear the areas that that you didn't do in that square block. And so, you'd have two different age classes separated by ten years, providing different benefits during different times of years for that technique was basically, I mean, it had multiple species benefits, but it was tailor made for ruffed grouse. You know, they have such a small home range that you want to provide as many age classes as you can in a, in a small area. So but now we're kind of working the edges like you said, more of that mosaic, you know, we've got those areas that we're, we're building adjacent to, but bigger blocks, you know, I showed you the, the one on, onX and, and that's, you know, we'll build off of that in, in the future too.
Casey: I was going to bring up. So in the gorge here is one of the areas of the state where there are some ATV, UTV trails, new state park. We'll give a shout out to state parks even though they're not within us. But we just checked that out too, just to see what it was. And like we've worked with them because we don't typically do trails on our stuff. More because of ours is for production of wildlife and hunting. And so those two things aren't necessarily compatible. But we've worked with partners to try to get some of these trails in areas that aren't on WMAS by trading properties and things like that. So.
Brian: Right, right.
Casey: It's kind of unique up here too.
Brian: Back in the back in the early 2000s it kind of came to a head in the, in the Pembina Gorge area. There was a lot of ATV, UTV motorcycle four-wheel drive use you know, going through private property, going through Game and Fish property. So the, the parks who are tasked with providing places for people to ride approached the department at the local level here and said, hey, you know, what would you guys think about this? And the thought process then was, hey, if we, if we, if Parks and Rec created something dedicated to this in an area where people want to use it you know, is there, is there a way to work with the North Dakota Game and Fish Department in order to make that happen? You know, because we saw the benefit because if we could pull the people off of land that we're trying to manage for wildlife that are, you know, using it in ways that are against our rules and regulations, that we see the benefit there as well. So we worked with Parks and Rec to do some land swaps to make some corridors for them to provide that opportunity to ATV and OHV. And actually, as we saw down the road here, it's a multi-use trail. Just about anybody can use it. You know, whether you're equestrian or, or walking or.
Cayla: Volkswagen Beetle.
Brian: Biking, you know, well it, it seems a little dangerous to me, but.
Casey: The picture was a little misleading. Yeah.
Brian: But, I mean, you got to give him kudos for providing that, because there aren't many opportunities in North Dakota for ATV riders on a recreational level.
Casey: It's one of those things like you talked about; it's nobody's going to buy a UTV to sit in the garage. I mean, very few people, right? So it's like, if we're going to sell these and then Parks and Rec gets the registration from all of those, you know, and that's where it's kind of under their privy to kind of, you know, try to manage that expectation a little bit. And so he had to work with them should help take the pressure off of us. And then do it in an area that's managed, right. You know, versus just, you know.
Brian: And there's enforcement and, and, you know, keeps, keeps everybody honest and everybody has a good time. And it's controlled. Yeah.
Casey: So what do you think are some of your biggest challenges up here or opportunities to work hard. One of the two.
Cayla: Opportunities to work hard.
Casey: That's what challenges are man.
Cayla: That's how we made it to deputy. Is it a challenge or is it.
Casey: An opportunity to work hard?
Brian: Yeah.
Casey: Right.
Brian: Exactly. Yeah. Challenges. I mean, there's, there's always plenty of those in, in all aspects of life, but
Casey: Besides short of manpower and time.
Brian: Right. But that's, that's been an opportunity.
Cayla: Opportunities to improve efficiency.
Casey: That's right.
Brian: Exactly. We've covered that.
Casey: Yeah. You're catching on.
Brian: Checking the box. Yep. No, I think the especially, you know, on our on our prairie WMAs the biggest challenge is cool season invaders. Invaders like grassland, grass invaders like Kentucky bluegrass and, and smooth brome. You know, we've done a lot of grass plantings. You know, in the last couple decades here and just to, just to watch those invasive species kind of engulf.
Casey: Take back over.
Brian: What, you know, was so pristine in my eyes, you know, after you have that you know, after you have that, that field that you seeded to a diversity of grasses and forbs, and you got big bluestem and switchgrass and all these forbs, you know, pretty soon you've got, you've got not that.
Casey: Not that, not what you want, not what you planned.
Brian: Yeah, exactly. And you've got a, you got a bluegrass slick, you know, and it's just, it's unproductive and, and, and there's, it's really hard to bring it back you know, unless you just tear it up.
Casey: You're kind of extra challenged over here. Like when we were talking to like Dan, in the Riverdale district and then Judd down in the Dickinson area, like you have the absence of cattle out here, kind of as the farther you get east. You don't have folks that are have cattle that is really beneficial to help manage grass.
Cayla: And more moisture than them.
Casey: Like you got more moisture. So you got like a, almost a double-edged sword there for grass management and gets a little harder.
Brian: You do. Yeah. And like you said, it's we get extra moisture. So our biomass is that much greater. And then it dies down, dies out in the fall, falls down. And pretty soon you got a duff layer, you know, in 3 to 5 years that's it's just, you know, it's kicking your butt because it's just shading the soil surface. It's favoring those species that you don't want, you know, so it's, it is, it's hard. It's hard. And we like, we don't have a lot of cows to pull from. And, you know, we've, tried that route on several WMAs and it's, it's, it's hard up here. Yeah.
Casey: It's a logistic challenge to get folks to come this far to do it. And then we have to maybe do it a little different than most people would think of on their own pastures, because we have some expectations in the fall that we're trying to manage with hunting and.
Brian: Can't leave them in there all season. You know, we want them in there for, maybe a month. You know.
Casey: I'm looking at some of the stuff and like you said, the grass is thick. And as a cattle guy myself, I'm like, man, could I get some fat cows if I could get them over here?
Brian: Right, right. Well, I've talked to several people and, and they're interested, interested right off. And then and this is more specifically on, on Prairie Chicken WMA out in Grand Forks County, but it's, it's, it's tough country. It's saline seep area and there's good grass there. But, and there's even some fences, you know, we've put fences out there. It's like we're doing everything that we can and. Yeah, well, we'll give you the, you know, the temporary fencing to, to finish this off. And I think they go out there and they battle those mosquitoes and, you know, to fix fence and they go, yeah, I'm out.
Casey: I'm out.
Brian: I'm out. I don't know, I've had like 3 or 4 different people that were, you know, just gung-ho at the beginning. But it just yeah, it just fades.
Casey: You battle the mosquitoes and then they get the ATV stuck while they're fixing fence and they're like, no, no, I'm out.
Brian: No, exactly. And we, we use them where we can, you know, where we've got interested folks next door, but it's not in a lot of lot of locations. And, you know, we hired the, the new person on and I kind of this is, this is a new responsibility that I want us to push a little bit more. And yeah, and Andrew's finding, you know, there's the struggle is real.
Cayla: So he passed on the opportunity. He passed on work hard.
Casey: Good job, Andrew, for taking that on.
Brian: Yeah, well I look good, I’m not failing.
Cayla: Yeah.
Brian: Yeah.
Casey: Well that was the one thing that kind of gave me a little bit of excitement too, was this new WMA that we got. It looks like there's somebody with cattle right next to us. Yeah. So there might be a possibility to incorporate some of that. It's always easier when they're right next door.
Brian: It is. It is. Yeah. If they're willing to take on a little more and. Yeah. And Yep. So we'll have to, we'll have to dive into that potential opportunity too.
Cayla: So you mentioned just now, but what's the story with Prairie Chicken WMA?
Casey: Yeah. I don't know, Brian have to take me up on that one.
Brian: Well.
Casey: There's an attempt to bring prairie chickens back there.
Brian: There was. Yes. At least one in, in my files and don't quote me on this, but I think there was, there were two.
Cayla: We’re literally quoting you.
Casey: Yeah. Literally.
Brian: Edit his out.
Casey: We're recording it.
Brian: Yeah, we're recording it. What are you doing? The one attempt that was made that I was part of was in the mid to late 1990s. I was just coming on as a wildlife technician and they were bringing birds from Nebraska up to Brookings, South Dakota. The department would meet them there, load up the birds, bring them back and, and release them in that, in that prairie chicken area. And the reason I say that, that I believe there was another attempt just because it had that name. I mean, there were no prairie chickens, you know, there before. And, and, and it just made it from what I saw in the file and, and the naming, the time of the naming it, it makes sense. But and so I got to be part of that effort at the very end. And, and they did, they did fairly well for quite a few years. But and working with John Toepfer, he was the guru.
Casey: The prairie chicken guy from Minnesota.
Brian: Yep, yep. And, and he, he knew everything greater prairie chicken. And he always said, you know, all you got to do is give him grass and, and an edge of cropland and, and they'll, they'll do just fine until they have to interface with sharp-tailed grouse. Yeah. And that was, that was their downfall. You know, with our translocation efforts yeah, they did fairly well for a while. Even got to the point in, in the state where we had a.
Casey: Couple years of hunting seasons.
Cayla: 2000s?
Casey: Yeah.
Brian: Yep. And then, and then just kind of went downhill after that.
Casey: When we saw that on the leks that we count, the sharptails just kind of started to take over and.
Brian: Hybridizing with the, with the prairie chickens.
Cayla: Are there any there's just hybrids on that now.
Brian: Last I heard from UND who was, who was who's now doing our census work in the spring, Susan Felege said she thought there was one prairie chicken left. Yeah. Yeah.
Casey: And we do still have some prairie chickens in the very southeast in Kietzman's district, Sheyenne grasslands. We'll hit him up with that in a different time.
Cayla: No, he's not last. But we're getting down there.
Casey: Yeah, yeah, we're getting to him.
Brian: Yep. So we're coming to the end of prairie chickens in Grand Forks County. In fact, the department has opened up sharptail season down there again. There was a closure for, for many, many years. So. Now we can utilize that resource too.
Casey: Yeah. It's kind of like we're protecting hybrids. We really don't want to do that. We might as well allow sharptail hunting. And, and it's an area that's populated that doesn't have many public hunting opportunities or stuff like that. So. Got to the point where it's like, well, that was a good try, but I don't know how else you'd do it other than getting rid of the sharp tails. And I'm not sure we want to get rid of the native bird real bad.
Brian: Yeah. How do you do that?
Casey: You know to do that. But yeah, kind of interesting. So favorite WMA you've got one.
Brian: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I've got a lot of favorites, but I, if I had to.
Casey: If you could live on one, which one would it be?
Cayla: Well that's gonna be a different question.
Casey: It is. Favorite WMA let's stick with that.
Brian: Favorite WMA. I gave this a lot of thought and I've got, I've got a, a newish wildlife management area called Wild Prairie WMA and it was, it's been in the WMA system for about a, about a decade now. And it was a WRP, it's still in WRP. It was rolled into the WRP program and then sold to many partners. It's 1,800 acres. It's a, it's a good-sized wildlife management area. It's a, you know, it's located on the drift prairie. It’s grass and wetlands. But the reason I, I love that place is because my staff and I had the opportunity to build it from the ground up. You know, it was it was corn stubble and soybean stubble. When we, when we got the property.
Casey: It was enrolled in WRP, but nothing had been started on the contract.
Brian: Right.
Casey: Because we didn't enroll it in WRP.
Brian: No. The.
Casey: The, the landowners.
Brian: The landowner had. And then. Yep. And so, it was really, really fun to have a clean slate to, to start with, you know, and, and NRCs wanted to do wetland cleanouts. You know, I mean, yeah, there was a lot of time and energy involved in this from all levels, but so we got to hire the contractor that did the, the wetland cleanouts. We hired the contractor that was going to seed the grass. We, we got, we got the
Casey: Pick the grass seed. Yeah.
Brian: We got to sit down and go, you know, what do we want to put out here? You know, and, and we had to fight with NRCS a little bit. Think. Thank goodness Andrew worked for NRCS at the time. He kind of went to bat for us. You know, we sat down and we ended up with 27 grass and forb species in that mix. And NRCS kind of went, I don't know if we want to do, you know, go that far. But they, I think they did a variance and, and it was allowed. And so the grass was seeded and it's just been fun to watch that progression as those species showed up, you know, because not everything shows up at the same time you know. It's you, you plant it and you wait and you go. Is anything going to come? You know, and pretty soon it's just all annual weeds. And, you know, there's a big patch of Canada thistle over there. We're gonna have to deal with that. You know, I mean, there's. But over time, you see, you see different things established, you know, and, and we waited and waited and waited for we had lead plant in there. And it takes a long time. And finally, it was like two years ago.
Casey: Well, it's heavy, you know, it's heavy. So it's just. No.
Brian: I don't think it works that way. But yeah, just to watch everything kind of you know, show up and, and yeah, I mean, it's, it's fun. I take my wife out there. She's, she's just a flower nut, you know, so it's fun to take her out there and, and show her what we did, you know? Yeah.
Casey: And see, honey, I do like flowers.
Brian: Yeah, exactly. Just not in the flower gardens. You know, I know, I like that too. We do that too. I, I planted native grasses and forbs and in my yard too. I mean, I just love this stuff. So yeah, that's so that's, that's been, that's been a key reason why that's kind of floated to the top for me. And the other one I just got, you know, there's got to be a hunting story there too. That kind of solidifies it, you know, and, and so I I, I had a female Chessie named Jersey and she was, She was getting up there in age, but this was probably, you know, she's been gone for 3 or 4 years, but this is probably 6 or 7 years ago now. And we went out there and hunted together. It was a nice big wetland out there and drug the canoe out and, and put a lot of effort into it, but it paid off. You know, it was one of those mornings where it was just wave after wave of mallards, you know, and, and they, and they, they cooperated, you know, so I shot of limit of drake mallards and, and I'm sitting there waiting, you know, and she's, she's doing all the work, you know, just it was, it was that it was that last really good hunt with her. So that that kind of solidifies it in my mind. Yeah.
Cayla: That's cool.
Casey: Cool.
Cayla: I'm waiting for someone to pick one not in their district. No one slipped up yet.
Brian: But no.
Cayla: Maybe Jens will.
Casey: Yeah, yeah. Anything else you want? Like you got? We've talked about a few WMAs, but like any unique one that we missed?
Cayla: Probably lots.
Casey: Yeah, yeah. Stick out in your mind like, oh man, if you if you wanted to hit a piece of public ground or see a piece of public ground, like these would be cool ones.
Brian: Well
Casey: I mean, not to give away all the good hunting spots. Well, yeah, I mean, these are just nice to see. They're just. They don't have any wildlife on them. They're just nice to see.
Brian: Something yeah, I would say our EWP wildlife management areas in the Red River Valley. Yeah. They're typically along the Red River or some of its tributaries. It's been kind of interesting watching that too. The EWP stands for Emergency Watershed Protection. It's a program through the federal government. And it was back in the day when we see all that summer flooding along the Red River, you know, or spring flooding those tracts of land that either the landowner couldn't get into until, you know, midsummer, or they'd get it seeded in the spring. But that summer flood would come along and just wipe everything out. So these are key low areas, you know, that weren't.
Casey: Not conducive to much of anything.
Brian: Agricultural practices.
Casey: Or houses or anything like that.
Brian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so those, those contracts were taken with the private landowners. They were paid full value for the property and then they retained ownership of it. So the only thing it's a perpetual easement. It never goes away. And the only value left to the land is the hunting, the recreational value. And so the department was able to pick up some, some of those tracts back in the day. And the federal government, when they took the contract, they would restore them. You know, they, they'd seed it back to grass or, you know, some of them had tree planting, shrub plantings, things like that. And so, when we acquired them, they're, they're ready-made. You know, they've got all the components established already. And Scott Peterson and I went through a laundry list of these tracts, you know, and of course, we didn't know if anybody was going to be a willing seller or not, but we had to kind of rank them, you know give them some value. We wanted the, you know, our sporting public too, to benefit from them. We just didn't want to take anything, you know, just because it was low hanging fruit. But we did pick up, you know, quite a few really interesting areas. And it's been fun through the years watching, you know, these, these areas are, and they were, they were typically you know, before, before farming came in and man came in, you know, I'm sure they were they were wildfires were burning them right up to the, right up to the edge of the river, you know. And now that they're, they're idled more, you know, there's a lot more woody vegetation that continues to come. And, and they're, I mean, I've seen some when I'm out there spraying weeds, you know during the summertime, it's like, oh, that's a pretty nice buck, you know, mental note, but I'm not driving all this way to come so hopefully somebody id.
Casey: Somebody is. Was Joliet Ferry. Was that one of them?
Brian: Joliet Ferry was not one of them. Nope, nope. That was long along the Red River. Really awesome piece of ground too, but that was American Foundation for Wildlife.
Casey: Okay.
Brian: There was some WRP agreements associated with that as well.
Casey: And then we, we had worked on one along the Red River. And this is something sometimes is like we purchased a small tract just for kind of Red River fishing access right from the Kulwicki family.
Brian: Yeah.
Casey: And so, I still have not gone there to go catfishing and I need to do that.
Brian: You need to do that. Yeah. That's a, that's a nice little tract. And it's, it's amazing the use that it gets. Yeah.
Casey: Well he said there's a lot of people that fish this.
Brian: Yep. And Joe's great to work with. You know, he takes his mower out there and keeps things clipped up for, you know, for the sporting public and, and things like that.
Casey: That one is purchased purely for fishing access on the Red River. I mean, it's what was it? Five acres. Acres. Ten acres or something like that. But those are important to for our fishermen and women to get out and see some shore fishing. That's where shore fishing is good Cayla.
Cayla: You need to make like a career highlights list like you want to catfish at Kulwicki.
Casey: Yeah. Well, I gotta take the
Cayla: You wanna ruffed grouse hunt up here. You want to you've already mentioned, like 3 or 4 of them.
Casey: I haven't catfished at Kulwicki, but I've ruffed grouse hunted up here unsuccessfully. I need a ruffed grouse on up here and successfully harvest one.
Brian: Yeah.
Casey: But yeah.
Brian: Exactly.
Casey: I just need to get my family out catfishing on the red. That's fun. It's a mess.
Brian: You got the gear for that?
Casey: Oh, yeah. We did it all the time when I was in college.
Brian: Did you? Yeah.
Casey: Fish up north of Drayton and catch the big ones.
Cayla: You need some frogs. That's what you need.
Casey: Frogs or raw shrimp in the spring when they're eating crayfish works really good for a tip.
Brian: Interesting.
Casey: But you have to.
Brian: You use stink bait, too?
Casey: We actually, we didn't use that much. You know, I've. It's not, it's not as good. Doesn't seem like.
Cayla: I just know frogs would out fish worms all day.
Casey: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we had fished through the night like we'd sit up and put cowbells on the fishing poles, you know, and sit around the campfire all night till...
Cayla: Drink water.
Casey: One of the bells went off, and then you'd be falling down the bank. Yeah.
Brian: Because you're drinking water?
Casey: No! Pop, come on. Those were my college days. It's long past now.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah.
Cayla: The statute of limitations.
Brian: Yep.
Cayla: Got him.
Casey: Got him. Get some skeeters out here trying to make a living.
Brian: Doing a pretty good job.
Cayla: Yeah.
Casey: That one almost succeeded. Yeah, but.
Brian: Yeah, well, and we've got we've got one more wildlife management area coming online. It's going to get signed this fall, but there's still some work to be done. It's a DOT wetland mitigation tract.
Casey: Oh, yeah.
Brian: A couple miles east of the big town of Edmore.
Casey: Another one to look up.
Brian: Another one to look up. Yep, yep. They've got some wetland work to do there next summer, so there's going to be some disturbance taking place, but it should be outside the hunting season, so. And we're kind of excited to see what that turns into as well because I, I got no idea what's coming.
Casey: Yeah. Well, yeah, that's another partner, DOT is required to do mitigation on some things. And so, they get a certain amount of credits for doing some stuff. And then they build your roads that you drive on. So. So we work with them to kind of partner and make sure they can do that and help them out. Yeah. Yeah. We've also looked at some tracts that are partnered with Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Whether it's part of the management of it or the actual acquisition of it up here. So it takes all the partners to keep things functioning.
Brian: It does. Yep.
Cayla: Yeah. I just think about it feels like I mean, I just probably wasn't privy to it before, but like with all these acquisitions though, it's like you don't get any more people. So it's like, now you got 67 WMAs.
Brian: Yep.
Casey: Right. Yeah. Yep. Well, and that's, that's something we think about long and hard when we do one of these, like, we typically don't do acquisitions that are small standalone ones because that's another leg of road we have to drive to get to one of them. We typically try to add on to something we've got so Brian's crew doesn't have to drive to a different spot. Or even, you know, functionally, is it something we want to manage? Like it's going to take too much of our time or what, but right. So we, we, I mean, we consider all that when we, it's not every piece that people either want to, you know, give or sell to us that we take even we, we turn plenty of them down.
Brian: Yeah. And access is a big one. You know, if you don't have, if you don't have the ability to drive to that tract reasonably, you know.
Casey: For management and the public.
Brian: Right to use makes it makes it drop on that, that list, you know, we want our folks to be able to get there. Yeah. People we serve. So.
Casey: So yeah, it usually takes somebody that really wants to do it before the department will get into acquiring it because it's a process and yeah, it's not a, it's not a money maker for them typically. I mean, like they can typically make more money on this property if they wanted to.
Brian: Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. There has to be. Yeah. Has to be some, some desire to do it for one reason or another. The thing that we didn't touch on is donations. Yeah. We've got here in the, in the recent past we've had we've had some opportunity to take some, some properties that were, were actually donated to the department. The, the Mozinski tract over in Walsh County is one of them. And then the Wall tract by Michigan, North Dakota, there's three quarters there that were donated. So. Got to, got to give a huge shout out to, to those folks too. I mean, that's huge.
Casey: Yeah, that's something. Yeah. They're not, they're not making anything off that. They just really want wildlife and the public to have an opportunity at it. So I have to applaud them for that. Yeah.
Brian: Yep. And that's that legacy thing again. Yeah. You know, we're we love putting people's names on signs.
Casey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll do that. Yep. As long as we can get to them and manage them.
Cayla: The most expensive sign you'll.
Casey: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Anything else you can think of, Brian, that you want people to know about your district? Besides that, you work harder than everybody and do a better job than everybody. No.
Cayla: It’s the best district. It's. There's a reason. It's number one.
Casey: There's a reason it's district number one, right?
Brian: I like the people I work with, so I will not offend.
Casey: Yeah. Yeah. No.
Brian: Yep.
Casey: That sounds good.
Cayla: Yeah. Thanks for the tour. Thanks for being on.
Brian: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Casey: I don’t think the tours done with. Now we know we can get back. Take us a different route.
Cayla: Yeah, maybe we'll see some stuff as the sun sets.
Brian: Yeah, yeah.
Cayla: Yeah. All right. We'll get into the department droppings. Please request wing envelopes on our website and then submit wing envelopes. Seems like we get lots of pheasants, but we'll still take them. But especially grouse and partridge, we can always use more of.
Casey: Yeah, we get less and less grouse hunters across the state, I think, every year. But we'll see. That's still one of my favorites. And then you submit lower deer jaws for aging. So you can request an envelope on our website. And we're looking at trying to get some aging data that's a little better, more robust to help us kind of track what our deer population is doing and maybe understand some of the things that are going on with it. So if you want to be part of that.
Brian: If you're close to a district office, we have envelopes as well.
Casey: Yeah. Stop in.
Cayla: This year, CWD surveillance moves to the southwest quarter of the state. You can kind of imagine that quarter, but if you want a map of which deer units that is, it's on our website. But yeah, if you're deer hunting in that unit, please submit your CWD samples.
Casey: Yeah. And then we've got advisory board meetings coming up October into November. So check our website for official dates. Not all of them have been decided where exactly they're going to be yet, but the dates are for the districts are on the website. So you can, you can at least mark it on your calendar if you want to come to one of those.
Cayla: And then we're holding another habitat summit this December or habitat and hunting access summit December 15th, again at Bismarck State College at the, I should have wrote it on here, I always get it's like the National Energy Center of Excellence.
Casey: Energy Center of Excellence. I think that's right. I think that's right.
Cayla: So yeah, registration will open sometime in November if you're interested.
Casey: Yeah. So watch for that because seats will be limited. It filled up last time. We only have so much space in the room for fire code. So all right, now that we've dropped the droppings, you can get off the pot and get outdoors.